“Truth is East Germany had it better than most of these countries. But it’s a lot of
desperation. Money was all fucked up. People were not that thrilled to have their whole economic
thing just changed. When I went to Moscow I’d never seen so much desperation. Begging you…
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It was scary, very disturbing. I’d notice thing like kids with polio. First I’m thinking, ‘Fuckin’
Russian government.’ You’re thinking wrong. Couldn’t America do something about kids with
polio? Are they worried about what, them growing up and riding a missile? Its all such bullshit.
We were the ones that were brainwashed, they weren’t. 1 out of 5 Russians dies in WWII. Think
we’d be all gung ho to jump in some fucking war if we had 1 out of 5 dead, some fucking
unbeatable… It was all so clear to me. How could I be so fucking stupid? The bloc countries
didn’t hate us, they didn’t hate Russia. It was a political necessity. It’s not our fault or their fault
that they don’t have oceans around their capitals. We were the ones that profited from that arms
race, not them. We made the first move with the Bay of Pigs. We showed them what the chess
court would look like, and a lot of people suffered for it.”
“What do you think of Castro?”
“I happened to have been in Cuba when Castro took over…”
“Really?”
“That’s right. Me and Fidel were hanging out, I was about 4 years old. No, heh heh,
actually my parents – mom, dad and me were on vacation on Veradera Beach near Havana when
all the shit start to get really dicey. It took us a couple weeks to get out. We met soldiers on both
sides – Batistas’ soldiers and communist rebels. I only know this from 8MM fuckin’ movies…
“Do you think he was in the right to begin with but turned into a tyrant by the end?”
“I don’t know that much about it. I know what somebody wants me to know, or
whatever. I think Fidel was probably the best thing that ever happened to Cuba. Unless you
thought some guy that fuckin’ supports the mob and torture... I know people live longer there. I
know people are educated. And I know we don’t have the right to tell anyone where to have
missiles.”
“Tell me about El Duce.”
“Well El Duce, that’s a character. It’s weird, people project what they’re band is, this and
that. That’s not always what they are. Sometimes it is, and to a certain extent you represent what
it’s about. It’s hard to go out onstage. If you’re a singer… You know I stay away from Henry
Rollins before he’s going on. I’m fine with Henry, but I know Henry is becoming something else.
It’s like actors do. Now and El Duce, or a Lee Ving, Lee Ving will go out of his way to show you
that he’s not as knuckleheaded as a lot of his shit. He’s not that sexist, that’s a lot of his shtick. El
Duce is the real article. I remember the first time I saw him. We’re playing in the Metro in
Atlanta and this old Chevy comes screeching up, back door opens, this old bearded fuckin’ guy
that looks 45 years old kind of falls out looking for a beer, kinda sits on the ground. I’ve only
seen him in a hood. That was El Duce. We didn’t play with him that much. But I know I wouldn’t
want to go on tour with him because he’s famous for getting fed up with somebody in a band and
all of a sudden you go to take a piss – and they’ll pick the right place – you know, Wyler Texas,
and they’d be gone. Cry now buddy…”
MILLIONS OF DEAD COPS (REPRISE)
Back to the house and Plankton Beat is gearing up for the later house party. For the time being
I’m actually going to hang out at MDC’s practice, where they are putting the final touches on
their set list before the tour begins next week.
The space is above a used car dealership where you actually have to go through the
showroom to gain access. That’s where I meet vocalist Dave Dictor, who’s another grizzled 50-
something New York guy. He’s got this Hawaiian shirt tucked into faded black denim jeans, and
is notably irritated. It doesn’t help that I ignorantly chose to sit in “his chair.” Never a good thing
really. This just sets off a domino of other issues and I’m stuck in the crossfire of a band bitch-
fest...
They hustle into it and roll through 15 songs pissed songs to get out the frustration before
Dave tells me he’s ready: “Sorry for getting a little goofy on you back there. We’ve got the first
gig Thursday and want it to be perfect. We’ve been around 27 years and want to be perfect.”
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“Where’s the tour going?”
Dave Dictor: “It’s just up and down the west coast – Tacoma, Seattle Bremerton, then
Chico, Eugene. San Diego, LA 2 or 3 times, Victorville. Bay area, Gilman Street. Then back up
and we’re gonna play Portland then Richland. So it’s like 16, 17 dates.”
“How do you feel about Portland and why did you choose this as your headquarters?”
“I really love Portland, it’s a cool city. I chose Portland because my ex-girlfriend -- the
mother of my child -- she moved up here and got married to a really shitty guy -- real crazy guy,
ex military guy. Sure enough they broke up. He had a kid with her, he was threatening to take all
the kids to Canada or Idaho. I got her and the children away from him, put them on a train to New
Orleans. At that point she was like, ‘Why don’t you raise Jesse?’ I was a single dad, and Jesse’s a
real Oregon kid, so I came back here… It’s a real punk rock town. I don’t want to use the word
unity but… Any night there could be eight punk shows going on with about a 100 people, and
you kind of wish ‘Wouldn’t it be cool if it was one big punk rock show?’ And not just like NOFX
or goofy ass name bands, like Bad Religion playing Warped Tour, but bands like Tragedy, Poison
Idea, MDC, Defiance. We could have 700 people at a show but that never happens. So you got
Tragedy playing against Riot Cop playing against MDC playing against Flipper all on the same
night. It’s not like CBGB’s was in New York.”
“You were around when that place blew up in the 70’s right?”
“Yeah, I grew up in New York but I didn’t really hang in New York. I went there a
couple times in ‘80, ‘81, ‘82, but I was living in Austin from ‘77-‘82. I was part of the Big
Boys/Dicks scene with The Offenders and The Boy Problems, and The Necks. DRI came out of
Houston, Butthole Surfers came out of San Antonio. Eventually Lower Class Brats, but I was
gone by that time. I moved to San Francisco in ’82, I loved it. It was punk rock paradise between
‘82 and ‘92. The rents were low, there were abandoned warehouses, people squatting, big
political scene all through the 80’s…”
“What do you think kind of ended it?”
“Things can’t sustain themselves forever. The mayor Feinstein, who went onto become
senator, declared war on punk rock. He didn’t want all those demonstrators and punk rockers
making democrats seem like they were tolerant. Demonstrators got beaten to a pulp, squats got
raided. It was like a war on the scene. Then gentrification started happening, more artists came in.
The rents went up, the dot com thing took over in the 90’s. The apartment that I lived in 1985 for
$540 – 3 bedroom flat that turned into a 4 easy, that goes for $2200. I got friends with nice flats
that are paying $3000 -- 3 or 4 people all paying $750 each… No one in Portland is paying $750.
There’s a lot of punk rock houses where people will pay $150, $225 a month. You can afford
being an artist. You can get a job working part time and you get a little practice space. A San
Francisco practice space is an arm and a leg. It’s just the nature of people moving where they
perceive it being cool, and now Manhattan is the same way. The West Village condos now are
$5000 a month. To live there it’s half a million for a tiny ass fucking place.”
“Tell me about some random legends you’ve met or worked with.”
“I will say I miss and really love Tom Roberts. I created an album with him called The
Submissives. It never got much notice, it sold 3 or 4000. He was the most creative guy I ever
hung out with. It’s where the rubber met the road. Like when we recorded that first MDC album
in a course of 6 months and the next thing you know the Dead Kennedys are taking us to Europe.
Tom Roberts and I were both reclusive, living just 8 blocks from here on top of a club called
Suburbia. We lived there free as janitors and night watchmen. When things fall into place, when
a guy hums you a song and you start singing a lyric... In two weekends you got 15 songs, then
your sending a demo to Fat Mike who falls in love with it. Here’s $5000, go into a studio. Here’s
another $10,000…”
“What about cop stories?”
“I was in LA a long time ago. They pretty much knew we were MDC and they came into
this little 300 people Foreign Legion Hall. I was upstage and they were ‘cops are outside.’ I go
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’fuck the police, the police are the klan, the mafia man. I’m saying one thing to you guys – I don’t
know how much longer this shows gonna go on but I’m just gonna say one thing – DEAD
MOTHERFUCKING COPS!’ And I turn around and there’s like a row of policeman. They take
me outside, beat me down with a stick, got their knee in my chest, in my head. The guy looked at
me and I said ‘sir, you know, I just said something really stupid.’ And he goes ‘you bet you
fucking did.’ Then they held me there, and they arrested like 30 people. Two paddy wagons
pulled up and threw in about 8 people in each van. There was still about 15 of us there. The cops
waited about a half hour and they’re calling up the paddy wagons ‘we still got 15.’ Something
else must have been going on -- you know, real crime. And all of a sudden the cop looks at me
and says ‘Where you from?’ I go ‘I live in San Francisco.’ He goes ‘get in your van and just drive
straight there,’ HA HA HA.”
“Any other rough ones?”
“There’s other moments where we got pulled over and they found the Millions Of Dead
Cops button on the visor. One Houston cop crossed out the DEAD with a magic marker. Said
‘That’s better.’ Another guy in Michigan said ‘See that field? One of these days you might get
marched out there and you’re not gonna come back.’ There was one time in Zanesville, Ohio. We
got busted and went to jail and our roadie’s saying, ‘we‘re on your side. Millions Of Dead Cops is
like supporting you guys ‘cause all the bad laws like in apartheid South Africa.’ And the cops like
‘Shut up.’ He’s trying to explain to him MDC is really pro-cops.”
“How do you feel about where your at in this stage of your career?”
“It’s been an enchanting fucking cool space ride. Here the band is going 28 years later --
original drummer Al, original guitar player Ron and myself. And still people show up. I couldn’t
imagine 28 years ago being here in Portland doing this interview with you. Reagan years you
thought the world was just gonna blow up. Maybe that’s just the follies of being young, but I
never could see what the year 1990 was gonna be like, the year 2000. I didn’t know if I’d be
dead, I didn’t know what to think. Now I kind of get philosophical about it. I think punk’s gonna
be there a 100 years from now. There’s gonna be funny haircuts, except its going to be new-
school punk rockers like 9 year olds and 10 year olds going ‘I hate my dad, it’s cool,’ you
know?”
“Any closing thoughts?”
Peace, love, bliss. I’m trying to envision the world that I wanna live in and make it
happen. I think that’s where the true thing’s going. Not to compare us to Ghandi, Martin Luther
King or anything like that, but in that vein I’m trying to create the world I wanna see created.
You’ve got to be the example of what’s going on. And that’s what’s challenging and fun in punk
rock, bumping into 15-16 year olds. Just to share with them what I feel. I’m trying to heal myself
and become a better person all the time. Love life, appreciate it. I don’t live like this angry, dead
cop, boiling over rage kind of person. I still am upset by the Multi Death Corporation run by these
damned Christians who are hell-bent on pursuing Armageddon and this rapture that’s going to
destroy the world and microwave the planet. That does upset me, but I’m trying to infuse love
energy into it because all the hate would just kind of consume me…
A BRIEF, SHINING MOMENT
“You know, one story I like to tell -- I got dropped off in Detroit, it was at a bar. We had been in
the van for 4 hours and I was tired. I go in and have a beer. All of a sudden this guy comes up to
me, like 6 foot 2 skinhead, he’s got these white power tattoos -- ‘kill niggers’ on his arm. I’m just
thinking ‘Holy shit, what’s this guy all about?’
I go, ‘Hey man, what’s up?’ He goes, ‘Yeah, I’m waiting for my friends, we’re gonna
fucking kick this fucking band -- this commie fag band called MDC -- we’re gonna kick their
fuckin ass tonight.’ I’m like, ‘Ah what’s going on with that?’ And he goes ‘Yeah, their just
commie fags, they just don’t get it, buh buh buh -- fuckin’ sick of people like that telling me what
to do buh-gruh-gruh.’
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Starts talking about his Irish grandfather, how they always hated niggers in their family.
You know, I got an Irish grandfather. He was always like accepting of people, he never used
‘niggers.’ He was just trying to get along and realized not everyone’s perfect.”
And he’s like ‘Yeah buh buh buh.’ I go ‘You know, I feel bad ‘cause you got a lot of hate
and anger.’ And he’s like ‘Yeah they stole all our jobs,’ that typical kind of skinhead thing. And I
just kind of like hung with him. And he said he prays there’ll be something for everyone in this
life. And that’s kind of what I want, and he’s like, ‘Yeah it’s easy for you buh buh.’”
He’s waiting around, looking at his watch, wastes a half hour, then he splits and never
came back. Some skinheads did come that night and there was some shit, but he walked. It was
like one of these enchanting moments where you’re just with someone in this little bubble and
your talking to ‘em and somehow you dissipate just a little of their hatred. It doesn’t always work
that way.”
“We both come from Irish grandfathers but you got this twist on life and I got this twist
on life. But I’ve got hope in my twist and I’m just wishing you luck. I didn’t tell him I’m Dave
from MDC. He just backed off his hatred, got tired of waiting around for his friends. Never saw
him again. I wrote a song about it called ‘Something For Everyone.’ And that happened in
Detroit City…