ROSS BRANNON

You’ve had an interesting career, going back to being a consultant for IBM many years ago. Tell us how you got there and how you ended up where you're at now.

FRANK CURTIN

I was a geology major in college. When I graduated, I went into the environmental consulting field as a project manager. I quickly learned that being a geologist in an engineering world, I could only go so far. My professional geologist certification certainly didn’t translate into my bank account.

So, I identified a need that I really ought to go back to my roots. I'm very good with numbers and I'm very good analytically. So, I went to Harvard and I got a graduate certificate in administration and management, because I thought having the Harvard name behind me would help open doors for me. Then I realized there’s such a level of learning in an MBA program that I would need, so I got my MBA at Ohio State. That's what opened the door into my consulting world.

I started as an intern with IBM, and I loved working with them. I got to work with some amazing people and corporations. I graduated with my MBA in finance and logistics. Since logistics is the supply chain side of things, I got very good at systems and processes. I worked with a lot of organizations, including Fortune 500, Fortune 100, very big and very well-established companies.

One of the principles that taught me was that the little guy who doesn't have a lot of access to people like myself, who don't have access to large bank consulting or IBM consulting or people like that, is out there trying to make their way and become the next success story, but nobody's looking out for them and helping them out. A lot of times, they’re not even aware of the help they need. I identified with that. By hooking up with different industry groups, I was able to work as a direct referral source from a lot of these guys, especially in the dental space.

That started out with a lot of real estate companies. I was an EOS implementer for quite some time, but had to part ways with what EOS was doing because I realized in the dental space there was a need for a lot more leadership and management training, and a lot of communication training. In other words, things that would help these people see and identify what's possible for them. If you ask many of them if they want to lead or manage, they will say, “No, I'm not a good manager, I'm not a good leader.” They have this belief system. However, anybody can be anything, because everybody is trainable.

ROSS BRANNON

Do you think your position as an outsider to the dental industry gives you a unique insight?

FRANK CURTIN

It really helps that I've seen a lot of industries. I've seen a lot of different organizations in various aspects, from real estate, to gyms, to other types of businesses, and I've noticed the things they do well and the things they struggle with. What I've noticed coming from that perspective, is dentists who are very skilled technicians, who felt they could do something in a bigger way for themselves by owning a practice. There was something out there they could control. They get to establish the core values and the culture they want to have. They get to treat people the way they want things done and not under the guise of the thumb of somebody else.

A lot of times they think they're on this island. They think, “We're dentists, it's different for us.” No, it's not. It's the same for you as it is for the plumber, as it is for the HVAC guy. All these small business owners who were technicians of trade, who started their own business, have the same headaches and problems.

ROSS BRANNON

We both have many clients or have talked to many people in the dental world who might make a good income, but basically own a job, versus the dentists who are business owners that happen to be a dentist, and who tend to have seven figure incomes. What challenges do dentists have to face to make that jump?

FRANK CURTIN

The first thing I'll always point to in this reference is Kiyosaki's The Cash Flow Quadrant. When it talks about the four quadrants, it starts out with the wage earner. Then we move to somebody that owns their own business, but the business really owns them. They only make money when they're working. If they take time off, the money stops flowing. That's typically what it looks like for somebody who owns a job.

There are two phases of business ownership. One is where you have a lot of people working for you, but you still do everything. You're the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker, everybody looks to you. You can feel the headaches involved with a lot of that because you have a lot of people relying on you to be the director, to be the buck-stops-here individual.

Then you see the migration into what we like to call the CEO. You're talking about the business owners who make seven figures. They don't have to have restless nights because they have a team of people doing the things they were once doing, and who have been empowered to do it properly. They have leaders.

It is all a progression. The business demand is there. Either you're going to fill it or you're going to get people to fill it, if you're doing a good enough job and growing it to where it's more than you can handle and you are willing to take on that initial phase of bringing people on to actually handle that and train them properly. The biggest thing I see with most entrepreneurs is they're fearful of hiring somebody to do the big job. They'll hire assistants, but they will not hire somebody that does what they do, because they're afraid no one can do it as well as they can.

ROSS BRANNON

How much of this is being a control freak and being afraid to let go of control?

FRANK CURTIN

I'd say 80 to 90% is them feeling like nobody's going to do it as well as they can and it's going to damage them or their reputation. They feel this is going to let people down.

ROSS BRANNON

Are they ever right?

FRANK CURTIN

Never. It's a fallacy to think that nobody can do it as well as you can. There's always somebody hungry enough and good enough. There's also a fallacy that they have to do it just as well as you. There's a difference between perfection and getting the job done. Too many people that get in this perfection mindset believe that the level of competence that they're operating at is perfection. That's just not the case.

There are too many moving parts all the time for anything to be perfect. There's “good enough,” which is getting the job done, and that should be the goal. Good enough means you're meeting the needs of the people you serve. You're meeting the needs of the people who work for you and help you serve them. That's being good enough. You have to be there, at least at a baseline, and then you can start to pick and choose what you want to be excellent at.

ROSS BRANNON

Who is your typical client?

FRANK CURTIN

It's somebody who is hungry enough that they want more out of life. They see a bigger picture, but they have no idea how to create a vision and craft it and go after it. They're not sure what that even looks like, where to begin. They don't know what it means to hire people to do the jobs they're doing, that they're fearful of handing over. That type of person just can't quite see the path to this flag out there. They're thinking, “I want to retire with $8 million or $10 million in the bank,” and I tell them, “Great, re you going to work your way there or are you going to build something that produces that for you?”

ROSS BRANNON

How many people end up calling you because they figured out how to market, and they invested a lot of money in marketing, and now they're too busy. They're working more than they want, and they’re overwhelmed. They can barely keep their life going or manage their life.

FRANK CURTIN

A lot of people do that. This is somebody who's hungry enough to go after it. They're willing to take the risk they hire people, but then all of a sudden, they'll lose an associate and now they’re doing his work on top of their own. They don’t have enough of an associate base to handle all the work.

Anybody that feels like all the weight of the world is on their shoulders is ideal for somebody like me. When I start working with them, I let them know that they don’t have to carry all this. It doesn’t matter how many people you have, they’re all dependent on your business to succeed because this is where they all get their sustenance. They all have a stake in seeing this business succeed. Why not build it with a structure that allows them to participate in the success of it rather than just be bystanders and let you do all the work?

ROSS BRANNON

When someone hires you, what do you see is usually the biggest issue right away?

FRANK CURTIN

Communication. A lot of times in businesses, people have really good ideas and they don't know how to articulate that in a way that gets other people to jump on board with what they want to do. The owner has an idea of what they want. They might be thinking, “Man, I'd like to have multiple offices.” his,” They know what they want, but they don't know how to convey that to other people to get them to buy into that. Maybe they tell their staff, “We really should open six days a week,” which leads to a revolt. The staff says, “You want to do what? No, I'm not working weekends.”

They need to realize, there's a way to get there, and it's not by just announcing it. You can show people the value in doing it. That helps them fulfill and live out their purpose, which, usually, in a dental space, is about helping people. The dental business is a people business. If you don't like people, then Mondays really suck.

ROSS BRANNON

Dentists are never taught anything in dental school about finance, about running a business, or management. I’ve talked with numerous dentists and they hate managing people, to the point where they're trying to sell their practice, when it may not even be that valuable. What would you say to those people?

FRANK CURTIN

If you really look at the business, this is your biggest income producing asset. If you’re producing a million dollars a year and you can invest $50,000 into your business and you can get a 10% growth, you’ll break even in six months and then make a 100% return on your investment by the end of the first year. How many investments can you make in the stock market that do that?

This is your biggest producing asset. Why aren't you doing everything in your power to optimize it, so you can get the most from it? Not only that, but we serve the most people. We build it in a way that accommodates the most people. We hire as many people as it takes to do that, who also believe in the same thing you believe in, helping these people and doing good by them. You want to take care of that staff as well along that journey in doing that.

You’ve spent this time building this asset and now you’re thinking you want to get out? Why would you get out and leave it half baked? Would you sell your house by leaving it a mess? If it needed painting, if it needed to be cleaned, if you needed a cleaning crew to commit, would you just say screw it and just put it on the market and see what you get for it? Or would you clean it up? Would you do some of the things that would help bring more value to it?

When it comes to your business, you should be putting the white gloves on saying, “What can I do to make marketing better? What can I do to make the patient experience better? What can I do to make my employee experience better?” Now imagine if it's not just you doing that, but a whole team of people asking that.

ROSS BRANNON

What's a common belief that most people in the dental industry have, that is completely wrong?

FRANK CURTIN

They believe they have to work until they're 65 and then that's the retirement timeframe. So many of them have been brought up through those ranks. They have seen the doctors come out of school, get into a practice and own it until they’re 60 or 65, and then sell it off to another doctor for a couple hundred thousand dollars. They’ve built their practice, and then in their 50s it starts to decline, and then they'll sell it.

The myth is, that's normal. But it is anything but normal, and it should not be your goal. You don't have to work as hard as you think you do to get there. You don't have to be the one hunched over, and with all the ailments that come with the type of contortionist positions dentists have to put themselves into on a regular basis. You don't have to be that person. You can be the person that starts to bring people on and let the young bucks come in and help them develop into good doctors and let them pay off their student loans by working longer hours like you probably did. You can start to pick and choose what you want to do.

ROSS BRANNON

I have a friend who makes close to $2 million a year working two days a week. He has several associates and he's thinking, “I have young kids, why would I ever sell my practice now?” Why would he get rid of the golden goose? If you can build a business and manage it where you can live that “retired life,” but still make the money like you own it, I think that's a compelling argument to not sell to a DSO. I understand, everyone's situation is different, but you can help people build a practice like that, correct?

FRANK CURTIN

Absolutely. Before you sell, you’d better run the numbers. What do you make now from this business? On its growth trajectory, what does the future look like? What are they offering you? If, after the tax consequence of whatever they're offering you, you can't make the same kind of money the practice is generating, then it's a dumb idea to sell.

You're comparing two investments and the control. Here's you in charge of a business you know well. Here's you taking your money and going to invest in other things that you don't know well. If something goes awry there, and that's where all your future is, and you don't know what to do, it's going to cost you a lot of money to try to salvage it. If something goes awry in the business you own, you know what to do if something doesn't go the way you want.

If you bought a single-family residence and you're using that as an investment tool, I don't think you want to go fix someone's toilet.

We always have to evaluate the sale. There's never a time when you're building a business that you should not build it to sell it. You don't always have to sell it, but you build it that way, and it will run with or without you. If you can take a three or four week Mediterranean cruise, and there’s more money in the bank when you come back than when you left, you've built your business right.

ROSS BRANNON

What advice would you give a new dental school graduate?

FRANK CURTIN

This is probably the best piece of advice I got from my MBA: figure out what you're good at and hire the rest. When I first heard it, I thought, “No big deal, everybody says that.” But not everybody does it. When they do, they’re more successful.

ROSS BRANNON

It's funny you say that because it's been very cliche to say “follow your passion,” but that's only said by people who are already independently wealthy. I know hockey is one of your passions, and you play it three nights a week, but you’re not trying to be the general manager of the Tampa Bay Lightning or anything like that. But you're really good at doing what you do and you follow your passion with a hobby on the side.

Find out what you're good at because you'll always be able to make money at what you're good at, instead of having to try and figure out how to make money and what you're passionate about.

FRANK CURTIN

I have figured out the secret of how to make your work life wonderful. You make a list of every role you have, and you check off the ones you really like to do. Then mark the ones you absolutely despise doing and get somebody else to do those. As you start to whittle away and have somebody do the things you don't like, you’re left with the things you like. When you've done that, you've found your sweet spot.

But there's one caveat to that. Just because you like to do something doesn't mean you should be the one to do it. Sometimes you’re not as good at it as you think you are. If you like it, you have to be good at it or you have to get good at it in order to keep it. Otherwise, you need to give that off to somebody who can do it better. Because at the end of the day, it's not just about you, it’s all about the greater good.

ROSS BRANNON

That’s brilliant. You’ve shared a lot of really beneficial information.