istory is about to repeat itself as we begin part three. The royal house of Hanover squeezed Lymmers out of Limmer, Germany in 800 AD. Now the royal house of Tudor is about to squeeze Lymmers from Limmer in Berkshire. Where will they go this time? Many have already spread themselves widely over England by now. Families of Limmers can be seen throughout Hampshire, Essex, Cornwall, London, Northampton, Surrey, Wiltshire and Yorkshire. Most of this branch will go further north to Suffolk. A few will leave these shores as their pioneering ancestors did all those years ago.
Although there is no record of emigration on the white sails or the Mayflower, nuclear families embark on sailing ships to emigrate, to New Zealand. One family, a corn merchant, Sailed to USA from Norfolk. It does not seem to have suited them as they return a few years later to set up home and business in Bury-Saint-Edmunds. By the late eighteen-hundreds the more adventurous emigrate by steam ships to Canary Islands, Congo (Zaire), Australia and Canada112.
Why did Limmers move so markedly as the time turned into the sixteenth century? We must first remind ourselves that Limmer's fortunes, up until now, had been tied closely with the church. Their lands and houses had, if not been rewards from the church, were opportunities taken as land from this source became available. Two things were about to happen. First, the Tudors took the throne. Henry VII, an obsessive fun seeking sportsman, used his full authority to seize land to make his hunting and archery more exiting. Much of this land centred around Hampshire and Buckinghamshire. King Henry VIII, who spent most of younger days in hunting, horse riding, archery, falconry and wrestling, seized even more lands than his father.
Second, Henry VIII's anger at the Pope for not letting him have his own way over his divorce issue was taken out on the church. Seizing more than eight-hundred priories and monasteries, he contributed greatly to the movement and fortunes of Limmers.
As we have seen, the estates of Limmer before the turn of the fourteen hundreds, centred on the landmark of Kingsclere. As with many other estates of the time it spread wide over Crondal Hundred, from Long Sutton in the south to Kingsclere in the north of the hundred.113
'Kingsclere' began in the 13th century. From Alfred to King John the village had a long association with the Kings of England. But this was no more than a passing association as Kingsclere was en route to Freemantle Park, the royal hunting estate which existed until the 17th Century.
Our link, of course, is the See of Winchester. The Manor and its lands were under the control of the priory from around 1336114 when it was granted to the Monastery of Berkshire. It was probably around this time Limmers moved in and the whole district became known as “Lymmer”. In 1540 the king seized it and granted it to Anne of Cleves on his marriage115. The following year he granted it for life to Catherine Howard.
Whether Limmers saw it coming and moved quickly or whether they took the compensation and set up in Suffolk is not clear but the coincidental exodus of Limmers from Buckingham to Suffolk and the disappearance of the landmark Limmer at this time requires we consider this as a major cause.
Gate Street. Judging by Margaret's strong declaration of faith and above average understanding of church doctrine, I guess she was daughter of a church dignitary.118 She was also politically aware. At a time when Elizabeth, strongly supported a Church of England rather than subjection to Rome, Margaret nailed her allegiance to the door in the opening dedication of her will to: “our sovereign lord and lady Brigadier Gilbert and Queen Mary,”119 who championed for the Pope.
John(1498.7) on the other hand, a logical, practical Lymmer, clearly kept his head down and left politics to his wife. He stated simply “I bequeath my soul into the hands of Almighty God and my body to be buried in the church yard of Stanford -as for my mortal goods these I distribute … as follows:”120
Soon after their marriage, this couple moved home to a larger tenant farm in Stanford. What can we say of Stanford except that it was there before Saxon times, probably having a vibrant Saxon village surrounding the church, but by the time of John and Margaret Lymmer there were only two or three families in an area you would hardly call a village. The farm seems to have surrounded the farm house and a block of tenements. The wills shows that John and Margaret harvested rye, corn, kept bullocks, (which were probably used for ploughing), pigs and a goat for
Thomas(1524.11) was also required under the will, to invest a sum over a period of years for the grandchildren. John(1498.7) had set up a trustee named John Bassett for William's(1530.11) children, John(1553.12) and Edward(1554.12).
Margaret separately left her property in South-gate street, (from which it seems she was receiving rent), to Thomas and his offspring.122
Shortly before John(1498.7) Died in 1558123, he and Margaret moved from the farm house into the attached tenement. Thomas(1524.11) took over the running of the farm in 1556124. Within a year of John's(1498.7) death his wife Margaret also died and Thomas(1524.11), who had the rights of tenancy,125 sub let the tenement to Margaret Mayhewe, the widowed niece of a property dealer from Essex. The lease started from 1559 to 8th June 1569. In August that year it appears to have been sold to John Church, while Margaret Mayhewe, (now Mrs Robert Twyd), continued to live as tenant.126 The questions arises, did Thomas(1524.11) sell the farm at the same time? And if so where did he go? It is probable that Thomas died that year127 John(1498.7) and Margaret had established that Thomas' eldest son, John(1549.13) should become the rightful owner of the farm on the death of Thomas128. This being so, it would have been John(1549.13) who sold the tenements to John Church while continuing to farm the land from the farm house.
There seems to be other nuclear families contemporary to John(1498.7) living in the four mile circle at the time. John(1470.U) 134 might be the head relation of any of the following:Roger(1497. 7)135, who seems to have been in business as a corn merchant in Glemsford136, then Hartest for a while before moving onto Hargrave137.
1) John(1498.7) 138,
2) Mary(1502.6) 139, who may not have been born in Stanstead, she may be Mary from Hampshire, but she lived most of her life, died and was buried in Stanstead (in 1558).
3) Alice(1541.10) 140 was from Bedford but resided in Clare around this time.
4) Robert(1556.28) living in Ipswich.
How do these fit into a family? Its difficult to say. My guess is it looks something like Family_Line_ 19 following:
Here might be a good time to introduce three other people who might or might not be part of the noble line of Limmer.
Shotesham Manor was a large manor and was for much of its existence split into two under a ninety-nine year lease in 1397. In 1444, one Thomas Lymnor of Shotesham granted John Appleyerd an annuity out of the manor. Which annuity passed down to William Whyte in 1497 when the manor reverted to the duke of Norfolk. In 1448, Lord William Lymner occupied one seat of Shotesham Manor. The title of Lord was honorary and not because William owned the title by right of statute. Nor can I suggest they are part of the family line without further evidence, although Thomas(1504.6) married into the Whyte family, William Whyte left Alyce(1530.9) a bullock in his will and William Whyte's son William Whyte, the elder of All saints church Southill left his best robes to Alice Limmer wife of William(1555.28). I mention them here in the hope that further evidence will be uncovered to include or exclude these two brothers141.
The third man,142 Thomas Lym, a seemingly very wealthy man.143 He may be part of the Lymmer line but I doubt it. Thomas Lym, Thomas Smyth de Grymeston, shoemaker, and John Wright were granted land in Hartest by: Thomas Grome alias Breccham and Matilde his wife, Gulfredus Smythe (who was rector of Sandringham), and William Trowght on Sept 10th 1455 AD.144 These lands were a little over one mile to the north east of Hartest where we later meet the Family we discuss in the next Chapter.
