A History of Limmer -Person, Place and Thing by Brian E. R. Limmer - HTML preview

FOOTNOTES:

 

1 Limmer and Trinidad company were very much leaders in this field in the 1900’s. Although there were several Limmers working for or even managing the company between 1870 -1920, the Limmer title refers to the asphalt and tar found around Limmer in Germany (and some records say Limmer in France also). The Trinidad part refers to the asphalt lakes of Trinidad.

2 The romantic notion that people could just become a knight needs clarifying. A knight would have been schooled for the post from the age of seven upward. A knight would be able to read, write and speak three languages, (Latin, French and English); he would be expected to excel in riding, swimming, archery, combat, falconry, chess, etiquette and song writing. Hardly a trade for the poor who used all their energies working the farm to keep a family. This suggests that Gilbert would have had at least one generation before him interested in knighthood.

3 I have already expressed doubt as to this origin of the name because the name was in existence before the Conqueror came.

4 The Plea Rolls

5 The Bucklow Hundreds refers to ‘…de Lymme de Lymme’ as (the Limmes of Lymme)

6 Gilbert de Lymme installed as lord of the moiety of Lyme in King John’s time The Family of Lymme took their surname from the place. The family remained as Lord of the manor until King Edward II (1316). (Bury Records Office )

7 The Limmes of Lee also took their name from the seat of authority given with the manor of Lee. Thus, the Lymme family branched into the Lee family.

8 The Domvilles of Lymm, Cheshire, traced their descent from one of William the Conqueror's Norman followers (see Burke's 'Peerage and Baronetage' under Domville and Domville). Domvilles seat of influence centres around Lancashire and Yorkshire : ‘An account of the family in the 12th, 13th, and 14th centuries appears in 'The Domvilles of Brimstage and Oxton', vol 103 of the Lancashire and Cheshire Record Society series. In the person of Hugh de Domville, the family first appears holding the lordship of Oxton in the middle of the 12th century. In about 1215 or 1216 the manors of Brimstage and Oxton were held by Sir Robert Domville, and his name appears as witness to a couple of Cheshire deeds and as witness to one for Eggleston priory in Yorkshire’ . The migration of Lymmes to Suffolk was assisted when the Lymmes entered the service of Domvilles as Knights and stayed on in their service after the major wars looking after the interests of their masters. Limme and Domville merge when ‘John Domvilles' son Robert married, in or before 1342, Agnes, daughter of Thomas de Legh, and became the ancestor of the Domvilles of Lymm, ’ Thomas de Legh was Gilbert De Limme’s brother’s son the name changed from Limme to Legh to take the name of the manor of which he was lord.

9 The Plea Rolls, describe Lymme’s lands as plots of separate functional pieces, while Bucklow Hundreds account describes how Gilbert Lymme’s land became worthless wasteland by late eleventh century. It looks like the Limmes of Lymme mined their land too.

10 Ref : Buckingham Records Office index of trades.

11 Local accent may account for much of this.

12 Among other books, ‘1251 the year of the Magna Carta : Danny Danziger & John Gillingham: Stoughton’ , gives a vivid picture of the skills and scares of the English knight.

13 John Cummins' : The Hound and the Hawk

14 History repeats itself, if not a little differently each time. In 2005, many shopping centres in Britain banned teenagers wearing hoods for fear they were up to no good and could not be identified on closed circuit cameras.

15 Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc

16 Thomas Heywood 1634

17 A dictionary of English Surnames : PH Reaney & RM Wilson Page 279 :

18 A resurgence in the art of Illumination by monastic scholars after 1350 : the Oxford Illustrated history of medieval England , Nigel Saul.

19 I have excluded Lumner, Lymner, Lomer and Lumnour from investigation.

20 Works of Richard Sibbes 1790 Banner of Truth.

21 The source quotes ‘1776 Stephen Limmer and Elizabeth Dewes : St George. Han. Sq i.263 and John Limmer married Elizabeth Sibbes’ as descending from two separate lines. There can be little doubt that both) share the same parentage. :

22 John Lemmere 1424 : Suffolk Surnames. I have excluded this form from examination.

23 The Plea Rolls, describe Lymme’s lands as plots of separate functional pieces, while Bucklow Hundreds account describes how Gilbert Lymme’s land became worthless wasteland by late eleventh century. It looks like the Limmes of Lymme mined their land too.

24 That is probably why John Lymme’s company moved to Bristol as we saw in the last chapter. Bristol already had ties with ports in Ipswich Norfolk. It was easier to transport goods around the coast, (stopping off at Portsmouth and Colchester on the way), than it was to carry the goods across land. The Romans had left a good legacy of roads from south to north but few from east to west.

25 Other Modern examples of Limmer’s leaving a mark on the map might be Limmer Hill in Scotland, Limmerhaugh in Scotland, Limerick in Ireland and many more

26 Hargrave Bishop’s Transcript 1574 to 1707 – Suffolk Records office.

27 Purely observational, but the practice of missing de and la is noticeable in Bristol Records Office records. It seems to have started by the Shipping clerks and spread to most departments by 1420 AD. I do not know if this was a directive from within the council but the practice clearly caught on.

28 Dictionary of English surnames

29 Thomas Lym among those who bought land from Thomas and Matllda Grome, Gulfredus Smythe and William Trowght near Hartest 10 Sept 1455 : NRO FLT1 / 168 23x3

30 Gidlas Chronology – Gidlas was a Bishop who came to Britain C460 and claims to encountered Saxons and Picts allied

31 Bede ad 720

32 Lymmer near Manchester was seized in 1556 in the second year of Philip and Mary’s reign the district was lost soon after this there is no evidence that Limmers ever lived there. Source: ' After reciting that Thomas Redish of Caterich ar' was seized in fee of the manors of Doddleston and Gropenhall, and lands in Lymmer,' : Ormerod, The History of the County Palatine and City of Chester, vol. 1 p. 635 fn a

33 Translating the German tourist boards literature on the district of Limmer which runs something like this ‘[The castle Limmer lay central in the rule area of the counts of clearing. … who called themselves after their master seats in Limmer ,…] : The earliest documents of Limmer (the town), are thought to be the Count's record of C1190 AD. By this time, Limmer Castle, which had possibly stood on the site in one form or another for five hundred years, was again in the process of being modified by the Count's orders, to accommodate a church and Monastery

34 Barbarians Secrets of the Dark Ages : Richard Rudgley 35 Referring to “Saxon attackers”

36 Referring to the armies that came from Lymme and the Knights of Lymme family

37 Barbarians Secrets of the Dark Ages : Richard Rudgley

38 The "English Chronicle"

39 The Hanoverian, having been Christianised, considered this people to be uncouth and in need of a lesson. So they attacked them ousted them and turned their castle into a monastery.

40 Baeda's "Ecclesiastical History"

41 Archaeological research shows they were skil ed boat builders and one estimate is that more than 30,000 came by boat in less than nine years.

42 Limmer Pond in Norton will be discussed shortly

43 There are many Nortons or Saxon Vil ages in England, some have disappeared off the map others remain. It takes a closer investigation of each to discover who the prominent clan within the vil age was. Some Saxon vil ages incorporated more than one clan but the chiefs or elders of the clan often left a clue somewhere close by. On this observation I base an assumption that the elders or chiefs of this Norton are Limmers because of the most essential amenity nearby – the pond is named after them.

44 Hampshire was somewhat larger than it is now. The border with Wiltshire in its west side was under dispute until 1300 AD when Hampshire conceded chute forest to Wiltshire, on the east side Guildford changes sides several times. Hampshire’s influence if not its boundaries extended north into Berkshire, mainly under the influence of the See of Winchester – Bishops of Winchester had property interest in Berkshire, Wokingham and High Wycombe.

45 Wocca was a Saxon Chieftain who sailed to Britain bringing any number of his kith and kin to settle in this area. Wokingham means 'Wocca's people's home'. While Wokefield means – You guessed it-Wocca’s people's home

46 Limpsfield was known by many names - Limenesfeld (xi cent.); Lymenesfeld, Lemnefeld and Lymenesfeld (xiii cent.); Lymefeld, Lemnesfeld (xiv cent.); Lemnysfeld, Lempnesfeld (xv cent.). (I do not think the similarity in name to Limmer significant, it probably means elm-tree ).

47 Limmer Feald is referred to in the Crondal Hundreds and Manor records. The spelling Fealds leaves open the question if it was original y known as Limmerfield or Limmerfelds. Field would denote ‘established agricultural lands occupied by Lymmer’. Felds would mean ‘forest lands cleared and claimed by Limmer’ . While the result is the same, it is more in keeping with the practical skil s of Limmers to clear from scratch.

48 Crondal Manorial records court sitting 29th March 1568.

49 A brief guide to All saints Church long Sutton.

50 Bishop of Winchesters fines and other records – Winchester records office

51 Place names of Buckinghamshire A. Manner and F.M. Stentons :university press 1925. Also The County Map : Jefferies & Bryant : Buckingham Archaeological society.

52 Ordinance survey maps C1810

53 A History of the County of Hampshire William Page

54 One William Lymmer from Lymmer set up company in Hampshire in 1265 AD – we will meet him in a short while.

55 Receipt Thomas Lane to Abraham Smitheman for £340, purchase money for the estate in D-D/6/88.

56 A History of the County of Hampshire : William Page

57 Wiltshire County Plan has designated this pond for a special protection order under Historical interest order. See WCC Planning Of ice.

58 John Chandler, a well respected archaeologist and historian, uses only the phrase ‘ Saxon sounding name’ to cite evidence of Limmer pond to suggest Saxon origin pointing out that Saxon villages depended on ponds and many have Saxon-sounding names such as Limmer, Dummer or Ashmore. He does not exclude the possibility that the pond was there before Saxon times or that it was named later.

59 From 1209 to 1255 there was a six-fold increase in rent from £4.4s.l0d to £29 and an increase in new land of 800 acres. By 1275 the rent roll stood at £36.10s.8d, which represented a further addition of 300 acres. In view of the very small size of the original settlement at Woodhay it is possible that the colonisation of the manor provided an outlet for the whole of the Clere group and it was settled by peasants coming from the surrounding manors

60 I have tried, unsuccessfully, to get an archaeological dating on the age of Limmer copse and have therefore turned to this crude estimate of dating. I cannot find any evidence of Limmers being in this area before this development, they may have been but I think it more likely the Bishop employed them from another part of his See. There is good evidence that Limmers worked for the Bishop at Guildford shortly after this period. We will take a look at this in a moment, but it is not easy to determine if Gilford came before Chute or vici-versa.

61 The evidence for this information can be found in a number of local history books at the Guldford reference library.

62 We have already seen Kingsclere was where Limmer estates were established

63 As a matter of interest in 1336 the pope ordered the Bishop of Winchester to reconcile the differences with one Arnold Lym who had left the convent, presumably with others, over doctrinal differences.

64 William Bassette's will NRO FLT1 / 168 23x3

65 The records show William as 'of Lymmer ' which suggest he came from Lymmer, Kingsclere. The other two are not identified by a place but are clearly of the same family.

66 we are guessing at the birth dates because the records only show when the companies were set up, but the fact that William was from Lymmer in Hampshire, moved to Norfolk and set up a business at the same time as two other Lymmers suggests they moved down as a family.

67 Possibly the year John(1225.U) died

68 Reading RO w/rtb 54 : Wallingford Nov 1317 Sunday St Martins the Bishop II Edward II

69 Moiety = part share : Messuage = dwelling.

70 Britain in the crusading years.

71 Richard le Barbor - Parliamentary burgesses for Colchester: The Men Behind the Masque: Office-holding in East Anglian boroughs, 1272-1460

72 [comment : It sounds like a fiddle going on to me it does not say how much the original tax was, but the going rate was about a half of that].

73 page 563 the register of bishop of Eddington : Winchester records Office

74 I suspect but cannot prove that John died of the black death especially with rats running around the grain store.

75 We know there were at least two relatives entitled to take up this option working in Guilford friary at the time. The option probably seemed like a poor deal to them as they would have had to give up what seems to be both lucrative and influential jobs. The manorial code was written in such a way as exclude ‘gentleman farmers’ or Part time farmers.

76 Pipe Rolls 1409 bishopric of Winchester

77 presently situated on the south side of the M40 motorway 78 ibid

79 These two and the son of John worked in Guildford Friary but not as friars. Guildford Friary was renown for its building and gardens and its workers were loaned out to many aristocracy including kings in exchange for healthy donations to the bishopric

80 From the amounts recorded, we might speculate that William was a charge man responsible for overall maintenance. John junior receiving a bullock tells us he was a minor under 14 years of age – hence I estimate his date of birth around 1416 AD.

81 Will of William Bassett 1428 AD: Hampshire records Of ice

82 Mary, Thomas and Anne appear to be one family – Records from Witley Hundreds Somerset Archives. This family may be cousins to John Junior son of John(1510.U) who are mentioned in bequest to churches Suffolk Records Of ice. John Senior may have been William’s Brother.

83 Description of Will of John Lymmor, Fuller and Clothworker of Lavenham, Suffolk Date 25 February 1529 Catalogue reference PROB 11/23

84 Bacons Annuls of Ipswich : Sail cloth was used for ships and windmills.

85 Robert Lymmer, merchants trading to France Select charter of trading companies 1530-1709 page 66

86 1575 -1599 Capital Messuage and land in Otley 2) Ipswich Borough Archives Vol 43

87 FILE - William Smarte and Robert Lymmer, Bailiffs, to Lord Hunsdon, Lord Chamberlain [of the Household]

88 1593 evidence of Title for purchase by Robert lymmer , portman of Ipswich from Edward Goodinge of Ipswich Gent 20 Dec. 1593

89 Bacons Annuls of Ipswich

90 1606 Robert Lymmer being a magistrate in Ipswich a little before he died t he sayed Robert was buryed the ix day of May 1606. Notes and Queries connected with the counties of Suffolk Norfolk Essex Vol 2

91 I was tempted to write 'o ne moonless night' to add a bit of drama but I have no evidence for that.

92 As Harwich was the nearer port to John(1470.U) Lymmer's factory the connection with Robert(1556.28) Lymmer, Portman of Ipswich begs consideration.

93 Queen Elizabeth 1

94 'Cecil Papers: April 1596, 1-15', Calendar of the Cecil Papers in Hatfield House, Volume 6: 1596(1895), pp. 132-145

95 St Gregory Wills and Admons 1570

96 The record of the dispute is documented but not detailed.

97 Spencer Family History : Sam Behling 1999 & The Spencers of Bedford, Holding, 1903 : About 10 metres from the church yard is Lymmer field and in the church of St George there is a brass tablet 'In Memory of John and Ann Spencer”

98 I deduce this because Ann(1509.8) was married in Bedfordshire 1530, and Thomas(1505) described his home address as Potton in 1532. Thomas inherited the farmland from his father and farmed it while living in the tenement at Southill. He also signed as witness to a will there in the same year .

99 Spencer Family History : Sam Behling 1999 & The Spencers of Bedford, Holding, 1903 : Michael probably had 3 wives Agnes Lymmer died 1561, Ann Lorimer , died before 1576, and Elizabeth.

100 Will of William Wytte :Bedfordshire records office

101 Joan(1532.9) Lymmer March 18 Baptism of Southill Joan(1532.9), : Bishop transcripts Buckingham & Luton Records office.

102 Bishop transcripts Buckingham & Luton Records office.

103 Crondal The hundreds and manor of 1568 Page 359 Lymmers field Long Sutton 1586 march 29 tenth reign of Elizabeth.

104 Crondal The hundreds and manor of 1568 Page 359 Lymmers field Long Sutton 1586 march 29 tenth reign of Elizabeth.

105 Bishops transcripts Long Sutton Hampshire

106 Crondal The hundreds and manor of 1568 the Crondal records part 1 page 197 Lymmers

107 Alice Lymmer’s Will 1582 : Hampshire records office. A property in Denton leads to the suspicion Bedfordshire and Hampshire Lymmers are close relations but there is no clear evidence of this. The will refers to ‘Alyce of Long Sutton’. The name of business mentioned ‘Alyce Brasse potte and A pot monger, Denton’ suggests the second property was there. Although the word ‘Denton’ is not easily deciphered.

108 Shaping pots by hammering them into a wooden template.

109 'Index to Wills at Norfolk.

110 Phillimores Hampshire Parish Records Volume 5

111 A porringer is a pot often used by seamen or traders to eat food out of. It is also known as a poddenge or a potenger.

112 According to Passenger lists from British ports, during 1865 – 1914, at least 55 Limmers travelled to these destinations.

113 See Lands held by Lymmer Interlude_of_Interest 3 page 106 Most of this list was farmed by Lymmers pre 1550 but was relinquished in what seems to be three workable units.

Sources: Long Sutton, A History of the County of Hampshire: Volume 4 ; also, Documents and records relating to the hundred and manor of Crondal in Hampshire. Part 5 (Page 156-258) and Kingsclere papers Chan. Inq. p.m. (ser. 2), cclxviii, 134.

114 A History of the County of Hampshire: Volume 4.

115 Ibid.

116 Rebecca(1507.7) is probably a group of siblings or cousins including: Roger(1497.7), Mary(1502.6) and Thomas(1504.6) see Family Line 6 page 82.

117 St Etheldred Parish Register Rebecca(1507.7) Lymmer married Enoch Cleare . Norwich St Ethedred both of Trowse Milgate 1540.

118 From the will : I bequeath my soul into the hands of Almighty God, my maker, redeemer and receive everlasting strength, the might of his glorious victory, and mighty restitution and to partake of his heavenly kingdom among his holy and blessed saint. My body to be buried in the church yard of Stanford aforesaid. She was clearly well versed in the theology of her church and forthright in declaring it.

119 Margaret's will 1558.

120 John's will 1558.

121 A sack of rolled rye would weigh around 60 lbs or 26 kg - enough for a year's bread making.

122 Margaret's will clearly states this is not the tenement : “I give and bequeath to said Thomas my son all of my house (not the appurtenure) as it is, lying and being in Melford in South gate street to him and his offspring forever”.

123 Implied from the will of John ' Thomas shall receive his inheritance'. Probably John's father had stipulated Thomas was to receive the farm after John's death.

124 Land transfer documents imply John and Margaret had moved out of the farm house and into the tenement before John's death:

125 HA 519/2049 1558-1626 Netherhall in Stanstead court rolls.

126 Ibid

127 Thomas Lymmer will written 1569 : - St Gregory - Wills and Admons 1570 – 157 DD/2P/1/24 .

128 From the Will of John :  I will Thomas my son shall leave to John his son the house and land I do give to him by this my will that for the said John pay his legacies due his forever is bound by this my will.

129 Bury records office index files: Roger Lymmer buried - 1595.

130 Between 1550 and 1566, Bubonic plague and Influenza were sweeping through the country, (The population of England probably fell by at least 6% between 1556 and 1560)' : A General Study of the Plague in England 1539-1640 By Ian Jessiman.

131 Ibid.

132 Genealogy of the Crane family Volume 1 .

133 John's will 1558.

134 From the Will of William Caston of Lavenham : Witness By Thomas Spring, John Lymner (1470.U) (Lymmer) in 1504 . : Will of William Caston : Buckingham & Luton Records office.

135 worked back from known transaction in 1553 and death in 1595 .

136 Roger(1497.7)Lymmer buried 1558 aged 53 may be a victim of the influenza epidemic. Either he or his son Roger(1530.19) Took one Joan Strutt (wife of Thomas Strutt) to court for the debts owing in 1553. Roger, as a corn-monger, sold Joan wheat on behalf of Robert Miller in 1551 : a2a archives.

137 Roger(1497.7) of Lymmer later takes on a Farm at Hargrave : Bishops records 1550-8.

138 The same we have just discussed.

139 Bishop transcripts Buckingham & Luton Records office: also BMD at Suffolk records office

140 Long Sutton records : also Phillimores Hampshire Parish Records Volume 5.

141 Source : An Essay Towards a Topographical History of the County of Norfolk Thetford By Francis Blomefield. As we have discussed in part one, Lyminor comes from the line of illuminators. However, the absence of a standard spelling in the text meant that the document was written phonetically, making circumstantial evidence essential to interpretation.

142 I was advised it was to corny to bracket (not Harry Lym) here- : screenplay by Graham Greene.

143 People of that time did not spell , they wrote as a word sounded. Being a mixture of old English, French and Latin, I rely on the transcript which interprets it as Lym and have no reason to doubt it. But include it here in case future investigation reveals a link with Lymmers : FLT 1/168 Norfolk Records office. William's son, William Whyte, left his best robes to Alice Limmer wife of William(1555.28)

144 Charter of Lands 10 Sep 1455 FLT 1/168 Norfolk Records office: I am personally not convinced that he is the head of this line. The reason I have for mentioning him this is that the land he brought is in the vicinity of land where William(1548.U) is later found.

145 Muster Rolls accounts for 1522:

146 William Lecheman, whose will was concluded in 1488/9.

147 The dispute was “William Lymmer and Elizabeth v John Bird over the personal estate of Francis Ladyman, deceased, of Little Welnetham. The plot thickens when we realise that Elizabeth was the daughter of Frances Ladyeman and Chorias [Cornelius] Limmer was married to Margaret Bird, John Bird's daughter. John Bird and Frances Ladyman were good friends and neighbours. Sources : LIMMER Chorias 1649. ; Suffolk Green Book & Court of Chancery: Six Clerks Office: Pleadings C 10/467/184.

148 All this family's records are courtesy of Maureen Darby researches between (1970-2010 ); Suffolk Records Office.

149 'Will of Frances Ladyman: 1658.

150 Ship Records Barrow paid 2/6d (Hartest) 1640 AD.

151 All this family information is by courtesy of Maureen Darby researches between (1970-2010 ); Suffolk Records Office.

152 The ‘pocket histories of Suffolk Parishes’.

153 The manors of Suffolk Vol. 7 Taylor, Garnett & Evens. 1911.

154 carucates, A carucate was an area of plough land, it varied between 60 and 180 acres (depending on quality of land, e.g. soil), which could be ploughed by an eight oxen plough team in one year, (also known as a Hide).

155 Dom ii 435.

156 There were no records kept by Hargrave church during the period of 1649 to 1660.

157 Harers wood and the common were close to the tenements.

158 William(1530.11) (mentioned as witness to will: Potton 1552).

159 Details of Grant : Henry VIII DKR 10.

160 Richard Kitson, Thomas' father, died that same year.

161 Sir Thomas Kytson (1485–1540) was a wealthy English grain merchant, sheriff of London, and builder of Hengrave Hall Kitson and Archbishop Lee instigated a band of sergeant at arms to ‘Change the minds and gain approval’ for the annulment of Henry’s marriage to Katherine. It was this incident more than the acceptance of Henry as Head of the church that caused the confiscation of land from Monks including the monks of Hargrave.

162 Actually it was more likely to be a 199 year lease than an ' heirs forever' agreement as the land was reformed and reunited in about 1730 AD when Limmers main centre moves to Tuddenham.

163 Henry VIII DKR 10 The fact that the farm was divide up by William Thomas and John suggests one common ancestor.

164 A Villein is a yeoman or other person who runs a portion of the estate having first paid a year’s rent and thereafter contracted for a further period at an agreed rent.

165 A number of the wills refer to records as held in the manor, which suggests they had contracted as Villeins possibly as early as 1508/9 and still held at least part of their land under the manorial court system with Sir Kytson in 1539. The Abbey held the manor and most of its land before this; the monks worked part of the land themselves until Henry VIII confiscated it. Sir Kytson was High Sheriff of London and under henry’s instructions he and Archbishop Lee took a sergeant of arms to persuade the Monks to support his marriage annulment .

166 [Limmer family].

167 [Possible Limmer family] .

168 information from ‘a potted history of Suffolk Villages’.

169 We will come to William(1555.28) a little later.

170 An archaeological report in Bury records office stating ‘… the lime industry well known to have been established in Hargrave’, was conceded to be an error when I challenged it. The report should have read Horenger. However, the kiln would have originated as one of many lime kilns used to produce lime to sweeten the clay ground of the farm-especially as Roger Lymmer was a corn farmer. Surplus lime would have been sold to neighbouring farmers. (see Interlude of interest – lime : ibid). It would have been turned into a brick kiln to take advantage of the fast rising brick industry and falling corn returns C1550 AD. See: Pankhurst C J: ‘Brick kilns in Suffolk’; (see also Hargrave tithe map & apportionment-A brick yard (plot 206) adjoining ‘Brick kiln field’ (plot 207) on Hargrave tithe.

171 Paul Sibbes wheelwright, (also lay reader or deacon in Thurston church) married Joanna (Johan). He died pre 1608 Children of Paul Sibbes and Joanna ; Richard Tostock born 1577 - MA 1602 -Converted 1603 - died 1635 unmarried ; John who gained a BA at Cambridge in 1635 John married and had two children:

Richard who gained a BA 1664 and an MA in 1668 ; Robert who gained a BA 1675 This Robert had a son Thomas – the father of Elizabeth.

Thomas Sibbes of Tostock died 18 Jan 1690, having married Elizabeth. Elizabeth died 9 Aug 1706 Children of Thomas and Elizabeth: Elizabeth Sibbes born 1677, Married John Limmer 1700; Hannah Sibbes bap 6 Jan 1679; Sarah Sibbes married John Nunn (Brother of Frances Nunn) 12 April 1697 died Thurston 28 Feb 1719; Francis bap 6 June 1683 died 18 Feb 1725; Richard Sibbes bap 1 May 1688 BA 1716.

172 Probably started by John Smyth or William Byrd who set up a number of Baptist churches in Suffolk. These, also being signatories to Lymmer wills.

173 The Scandalous Ministers Bill was passed by the House of Lords by 1630, the rector of Hargrave was brought before the local commission , resulting in him being driven out of the village by troopers: Suffolk Parish History : Wendy Goult.

174 The book is actually called Calendar of the Patent Rolls Preserved in the Public Record Office : Elizabeth 1 Volume V 1569-1572.

The entry on page 67 says :

508 30 June 1570. Gorhambury. Pardon for John Lymmer late of Hardgrave, co. Suffolk, ‘laborer’, indicted at the gaol delivery of Ipswich and Bury St. Edmunds, co. Suffolk, held at Bury St. Edmunds on Wednesday in the fourth week of Lent, 12 Elizabeth, before Robert Catlin, knight, chief justice of the Queen’s Bench, and Robert Bedingfield, justices of assize and gaol delivery, for that he broke and entered the close of Oliver Sparrowe at Howesdon, co. Suffolk, on 17 Oct., 11 Eliz., and stole a gelding belonging to him. At the suit of Christopher Heydon, knight. By Q {m 43] ( membrane 43 of the document)

175 See Family_outline 1 Family Theory of Hargrave page 103

176 The street leading to his farm was known as Strutt Tyr and is still land marked today on the map.

177 John Strutt was the s