Interview on Bilingualism
conducted by
David W. Trotter
January 21, 1994
Subject: Celia
Age: 28
Education: At time of interview: Working on her Master’s Thesis in ESL
D: Anyway...Why don't you tell me...You grew up bilingual, right?
C: Correct.
D: Now, did you grow up speaking both languages, or what was your background with the two languages.
C: I grew up speaking Spanish first, because that’s what my parents...that's all they spoke. So I didn't have...I hadn't gone to school; I didn't have any influence from English. When my brothers started going to school, that’s when the English was introduced into the home.
D: Your brother's older than you are?
C: Oh, I have...there’s twelve of us.
D: Twelve. Where do you fall into the family?
C: I’m the eighth one.
D: Eight of twelve?
C: Yeah....So when they went to school...what you learn in school, you usually bring in. And that’s how I was introduced to English.
D: So how old were you when they first started going to school?
C: I think my older...the oldest one, he's like 48.
D: He’s 20 years older than you?
C: Yeah. So I think I was introduced...I don't remember, but I think I was introduced to, of course Spanish, but English came almost immediately...almost immediately.
D: Because they were already in school?
C: They were already speaking it.
D: Where was this?
C: This was in Othello.
D: Oh, this was in Othello? You grew up in Washington?
C: Yeah.
D: But you grew up speaking Spanish at home. Did you ever speak Spanish...a...speak English outside the home, outside your home...Spanish or English outside the home until, before you went to school?
C: Yeah. I think I spoke Spanish and English, but my mom and my dad were a big influence, and my mom forbade us, she just forbid us to speak English.
D: Oh she did?
C: Yeehh. She would punish us, even throughout high school.
D: Even...No English at home?
C: No English at...If she heard us...
D: Even outside your home, huh?
C: Well, outside, when she wasn’t around, we could, because we were in school, and my mom figured, “Okay, you speak English all day. You need to put some time speaking Spanish”
D: Okay.
C: You know, so that’s what we did.
D: A curious question. Does your English, does your Spanish have an English, an Anglo-American-Anglo accent?
C: My Spanish?
D: Yes.
C: I think it does.
D: You think it does?
C: I think it does. It does. If I were to go to Mexico, they could tell. They could tell that I’m...
D: Not a Native?...
C: No, I’m not a native from Mexico.
D: And a...The reason I ask that is because you do...Your English is accented.
C: Really?
D: Yeah...You don't hear that?
C: No, I don’t. People tell me...Some people tell me that I do have an accent. I can't hear.
D: Okay.
C: Yeah.
D: Well that was why I was wondering, is what kind of a English-Spanish/Spanish-English background you have. So. how much have you used the languages since you grew up?
C: My Spanish?
D: Spanish and English both.
C: Uh. Well I use to interpret for my parents, and I still do, because they understand English, and they can...It’s very limited. They can speak it. But, you know, I would take them to the hospital, interpret, fill out forms. So, yeah.
D: Did the rest of the family, the kids?...
C: They all did that.
D: So, and you still do that.
C: Yeah, we still do that.
D: You still do that?
C: Yeah.
D: When you go home, you speak...?
C: Spanish.
D: Spanish?
C: Mom still gets mad at us if we speak English...
D: If she hears the English coming out?
C: Yeah. Exactly.
D: In other words, she wants you to keep the language.
C: Yeah, well exactly. If you don’t know where you came from, you don’t know where you're going.
D: Well, that brings up another set of questions...Is...You spoke Spanish at home, English at school, and if your mom was around anyplace else, you spoke Spanish?
C: Yeah, unless I was interpreting or I was talking to one of my friends which were, usually they were…
D: English speaking?...
C: English speakers.
D: What did that do for your concept of the languages? How did you view the two languages? Did you personally favor one or the other?
C: Um, I kind of favored English, because I was able to express myself. I still think I’m able to express myself in English better than in Spanish.
D: Why is that?
C: I don't know. It’s just I, I might have a limited vocabulary in Spanish.
D: Why would you...Now, you spoke the Spanish longer?...
C: Yeah, but you know, in...when you speak a language for...I think I feel a lot comfortable speaking English. I do. I feel a lot more comfortable. And I guess, speaking Spanish with my parents, my mom would always, not be nit-picky, but you know...You tend to shy away, because you're going, “I don't really know how to speak Spanish,” and you know, you just have insecurity...
D: She was correcting you?
C: All the time.
D: Like, so many people.
C: Yeah. So you tend to shy away...
D: That’s not new to Spanish. The English do it, too, and uh...
C: Yeah...
D: ...get it in schools....Did you speak one language more than the other as you grew up?
C: Uh...I think as I was growing up, I think English took over.
D: It took over?
C: Yeah, It took over, 'cause we speak...well, with my brothers and sisters, I would talk, you know, we would talk to each other in English.
D: Oh really?
C: So, the only time we would speak in Spanish was with Mom and Dad.
D: Do you know, do you have any idea why you did that?
C: I have no idea. I have no idea.
D: Did you have any Spanish-speaking friends?
C: No. I didn’t. I, I...acquaintances, yeah, I mean, there was some, but I would mostly...
D: ‘Cause Othello has how much of a Spanish population?
C: It’s like almost 50 per cent, almost 50 per cent.
D: That’s what I thought.
C: But, back then it was a little bit...It was fewer...
D: Fewer?
C: Fewer back then.
D: So, real strong English-speaking within the community?...
C: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
D: How did that make you feel about the two cultures?
C: I had a...I was torn. I was torn between the two cultures, because I felt that being an Hispanic, I didn't really fit in with the majority. And being an Hispanic I didn’t feel...I still don’t feel like I fit in. I mean, I go to the Chicano Education, where the Chicano Lounge in Monroe...
D: In Monroe?
C: Yeah. And I don't feel like I fit in. I don’t.
D: You don’t feel like you fit in with the Hispanics?
C: Exactly.
D: How about the English-speaking?
C: I don’t feel like I fit in. I mean, when I would go to Mexico, or if I would go to Mexico, I don't think they would accept me, because I’d be too Anglicized, or too Americanized, you know. I’ve been living in the United States too long.
D: Tell me something about the culture. I’m not that familiar with the Hispanic culture, but I understand there’s a distinction between Mexican, Chicano. Explain that a little bit more to me, and how you fit into that. Give me some background on that first.
C: Okay. Well, I guess it’s just name, what you would label yourself. Chicano, what people consider Chicano or Chicana, is some one that has, is a, by, uh, their parents are Mexicano, but they grew up, they were born, in the United States. And they...I don’t know....they prefer...they label themselves with Chicanos, ‘cause they don’t want to be known as Mexicanos.
D: They don’t want to be known as Mexicanos?...
C: No, because they weren’t born in Mexico. I mean, they’re from the States. So, I’m a Mexicano....I, I don’t know...I'm really more Chicano...because I’m a Mexicano; my parents are Mexicanos; I’m going to die being a Mexicana.
D: Were you born there?
C: No, I was born here.
D: So, technically, some people would label you Chicana.
C: Yeah, but I don't label myself Chicana...
D: You consider yourself?...
C: ...because I'm a Mexicana. I mean, you know. Someone being born in, you know, their parents are from Sweden, I mean, you can’t say that...You know what I mean?
D: Mm mm.
C: They, I mean, I know, everyone's an American, ‘cause we’re living here, but...um...That’s what the two distinctions...And the older, the older generation, the Mexicanos, they really look down on the people that call themselves Chicanos or Chicanas, because they’re trying to get away from their roots...
D: Yes?
C: ...of who they really are...
D: They feel the ones who label themselves Chicano...
C: Yeah, they don’t wanna, you know...They don’t want to be Mexicanos, so they’re...
D: So then, you...and you sound like you want to stay tied to your roots?
C: Yeah. I am a Mexicana. There’s, I mean, there’s nothing that I can do about it.
D: Does that come from growing up in a Hispanic home, or from speaking the language, or the culture, or what?
C: Well, you know what. At first, growing up in Othello, there was an Hispanic population, not as big as it is right now. But I want to fit in like anyone else. So, what I did is, you know, I tried, I was in the cheer leading squad. I was the only Mexicana. Everyone else was white. So, I wanted to fit in with everyone. And I didn’t want to be known as...I didn’t want to be different. So, all my friends were, they weren’t Hispanic. And, I mean, I didn't choose that. I mean, I wasn’t trying to be prejudiced or anything. But I, um, just wanted to fit it, and, just one day, looked at myself, and I'm going, “Who am I kidding? I am not, I’m not gonna ever be, and I’m never gonna be like them. I’m gonna be, I’m a Mexicana, so I might as well just face it,” after that, so, and you know, and be proud of myself.
D: Was that a let...I was going to say, I was going to ask if that was a letdown.
C: Yeah. I felt like I was cheating myself. I felt like I wasn’t...that who I was wasn’t good enough, and I was going, “No, I need to be happy with who I am.”
D: So up to that point you had felt outside the Mexicano?...
C: Yeah. Even with my friends, being in the cheer leading squad, I felt like an outsider, and...
D: What happened at that point, once you made that decision? Did it make a difference?
C: When I was in the squad, or?...
D: No. When you made a decision that you were not going to try to be...non-Hispanic?
C: Uh. I came to terms. I’m happy with myself.
D: Yeah?
C: I’m happy with myself. I’m, I am proud of being a Mexicano. There’s nothing wrong with that. There’s nothing wrong with being part of your heritage. That’s who I am, and I can’t deny that.
D: I grew up with some heritages, too, so I know what you're talking about...
C: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
D: You pronounce your name?
C: Say-lyuh.
D: Say-lee-uh?
C: Say-lyuh.
D: Which is the Hispanic, which is the Spanish pronunciation?
C: Right.
D: Have you always done that?
C: Uh, no, not always. That's going back to where I had to make a decision. And I always say my name Say-lyuh Raw-me-rez. That’s how it’s pronounced.
D: And at one point it was?
C: Seal-yuh.
D: Seal-yuh?
C: Yeah. Seal-yuh.
D: And how did you pronounce [last name deleted for anonymity].
C: [deleted]. And I was being a hypocrite. And usually I was...“I gotta do something.” Yeah. And that's how I...
D: How old were you when you decided that?
C: I think I was like, um...I think it was in high school, when I knew that it was, everything that I tried to do would never...I mean, I could never change, you know, who I was. So, I decided I might as well come to terms with...
D: Did it make a difference in how people responded to you?
C: Um...
D: That you could tell?
C: I think so, because they, they accepted me for who I was. I wasn’t going to deny who I was. I was Mexicana. And there was a lot of my friends who would tell me, “You’re not like the others.” That bothered me.
D: Which friends?
C: My non-Hispanic friends...I don’t know what to call them: Anglos, whites...
D: Well, because, because Hispanics are whites, too...
C: Yeah. Exactly.
D: So, I say, your non-Hispanic friends would say, “You’re not like the others,” meaning, “You’re not like the other non-Hispanics,” or “You’re not like the other...
C: “You’re not like the His...the other Hispanics.” And that really bothered me. Yeah, I mean, “You’re not like the others,” and I never really...
D: Did you ever figure that one out?...
C: No. I didn’t. You know, everyone takes it differently, and I didn’t know how they meant it. So, I just kinda...
D: Did you ever just say, “I’m Celia”?
C: Yeah. I mean, like me for who I am. You know, it doesn’t matter a color. I mean, I like you for who you are.
D: Well, that one thing I’ve always noticed about you, is you just...There’s nobody quite like this person. Yeah. Your very calm individuality...
C: Yeah...
D: Intense, but sometimes...I’m a...Do I need anything else from you? Uh. Give me just a moment. Let me get my thought here for just a moment. With all that deciding, working through, and you decided you were, at one point, you were being a hypocrite, trying to be one thing and deciding you were really who you are, regardless, you know, regardless of language, culture, whatever, did you ever put negatives or positives on any of that?...
C: Of, um,...
D: Any negative feelings or positive feelings or say, “This is good. This is bad. This I don’t want. This I’d rather be.” You know, anywhere in the last 28 years?
C: Um, yeah. Because, growing up, still my mom and dad have a negative attitude towards the Mexicanos.
D: Towards the Mexicanos?
C: Yeah, yeah. Um...
D: Even though they insist on the His...on the Spanish language?
C: Right. Even though everyone, you know, there's good and bad in everyone, I mean, it doesn’t, regardless of race, religion, or whatever. Um. So that really, it kinda rubbed off on me. And then, I would see the Mexicanos form Mexico, and, you know, you kinda have a animosity there, because you’re from the States, and then, you know, they’re coming here, kinda invading your territory, so to speak. So. But, uh, no, not any more. I try not to. I try not. But, I just look at it,...
D: So, you try not to. Does it still slip in once and a while?
C: Once in a while it does. But, I need to know, well I need to, well, we need to know that everyone, we’re people and everyone, you know, regardless of color. It doesn't really matter.
D: That’s interesting, only because this book that I’m reading onto tape is not all glory for any of the leaders of this country. And I just finished reading a chapter onto tape on the, uh, on the Mexican-American War. And it’s not complimentary to how the U. S. stepped into that situation.
C: Oh, yeah, or like how the Alamo. That was disgus...I was disgusted.
D: But, but, even with all that, all that historical knowledge, you still felt some animosity toward the Mexicans, the Mexicanos.
C: Yeah. Well, I’m not gonna blame my parents. I mean I can think for myself. But now it’s, you know...
D: How about toward __________?
C: At times...Well, no, not really. I’ve kinda worked through that, because, I don’t know. I think everyone has their prejudices; it may be towards fat people, or, you know, deaf people, handicapped, you know.
D: You were born here?
C: Uh huh.
D: How long had your folks been here?
C: Oh, I would say thirty-five years.
D: Before you were born?
C: Yeah. They were her like thirty-five, thirty years.
D: And they had come when they were adults or children?
C: My dad, he came, and he was like eighteen. He came across the border. And then, my mom came later.
D: So, you're Hispanic, but you were born north of the border, and...
C: Exactly.
D: Born in Othello?
C: Mm mm.
D: So, you were born into that situation and grew up with it from the very beginning, huh?
C: Yeah. Exactly.
D: Okay. Well, I think that’s all I need right now. That’s going to give me some things to work with. I'm, uh...One more though.
C: Uh huh?
D: Did you have any troubles going back and forth between the two languages? How did you function between the two languages? Did you keep them separately, work with them together? How did you do that?
C: Um. Growing up as a child, you know how children they're remarkable.
D: Yes?
C: No, I never...
D: Remarkable how?
C: Because they're able to think, to decipher. When I was interpreting for my parents, I mean I did it when I was really small. And I was able to take the English, code it, decode it, or whatever, and then, and then say it in the Spanish vernacular.
D: Was there any point where there was just one language, English-Spanish. Or was all Spanish, and then English came in, or do you remember any?...
C: I think it was all Spanish. Then English came in. And now it’s...
D: How did you separate that out, or did you? How did you deal with that? Do you remember back, I mean, that, that’s a way, that's way back. Do you remember how you dealt with it?
C: Uh, oh gosh, no. Like, right now, um, I’m doing a...I want to do a paper on Chicano code-switching. It’s like, whenever I talk, I, like, talk to anyone, and whenever I say, “Have you heard of the earthquakes in Loas Anghehless?” I don’t say Los Angeles. I say Loas Anghehless. So, there’s a combination of both that I do. Or, um, you know, or whenever I relate to my family or to church, I always tend to speak in Spanish, because I tend to relate more in Spanish....
D: Well, even just an example, here you've been saying, you refer to Meheeco...
C: Yeah, Meheeco.
D: Meheecanos, uh, Meheecanos. Uh, that’s what they call themselves. That’s, some people would say, “That’s their name. That’s what they call themselves. That’s the valid name.”
C: Mm mm.
D: How do you feel? You mentioned code-switching. Would you prefer to speak in whatever language, pronounce the names, even, in whatever language you're speaking?
C: Oh, I think that’s the correct way. I don’t know that, because to me, saying Mexicans, that sounds really odd for me...
D: But what about, say, Loas Anghehless?
C: Loas Anghehless?
D: Yeah. How about that, something like that?
C: I would say in Spanish, because I, it’s, it’s spelled in Spanish.
D: It’s a Spanish name.
C: Yeah. It’s Loas Anghehless. And I relate to it better, because that’s how I would pronounce it in Spanish. And it is written in Spanish, so say it in Spanish.
D: That’s why I would ask. So those things...Do you code-switch on anything else, just general terms?
C: Just general terms. Like, whenever I’m talking to my brothers or sisters, we talk in English. Right? But whenever we start talking about Mom or Dad or when we were younger, we code, or we switch back to Spanish, because we can relate to Spanish, or we can relate to that situation more in Spanish.
D: So, you're using different languages for different purposes…
C: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
D: ...and different situations?
C: And, then, whenever I talk about school, I go back to English.
D: With your brothers and sisters, you just switch back and forth.
C: Yeah. Yeah. We go back and forth.
D: Do you ever switch like that with other Spanish-speaking friends and associates, or with other English-speaking friends and associates?
C: Um. With like, maybe, like, the Hispanics, because when I was small, growing up, we used to work out in the fields every summer. And whenever we talk about our experiences, we tend to talk in Spanish.
D: Yes.
C: And, but, with, like, my, the English-speaking native-English-speakers, I just go and talk to them in English, or whatever.
D: Without code-switching?
C: Maybe, if I would say Loas Anghehless...
D: A name?
C: Exactly. But if my experiences are in English, so I kinda would just tend to bond with them that way.
D: Thank you.
C: Oh, you're welcome