"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
— Thomas Paine, author
On one Sabbath, Michael and Pamela decided to try to correlate the Revelation of John, Daniel 11, and Ezekiel 37, 38. Can the words of each of the sections of the Bible be blended together? To Michael, some of Revelation is history, and some of Revelation is future that, in different books of the Bible are views from different angles of the same world occurrence.
"Michael, is seems a very reasonable assumption, to put Revelation 7: 38, the sealing of the 144,000 from each Israeli tribe, as a sealing of evangelicals to make Ezekiel 37:2123 possible, is it not?" asked Pamela.
"I have wondered about those Ezekiel verses work with Matthew 21:43 'Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.' Are those promises made in Ezekiel conditional promises when Jesus said the Kingdom of God was taken from the Jews?" asked Michael.
"No, I don't think so. There is no 'if' in the whole chapter of Ezekiel 37. It is an 'absolute' prophecy; it's going to happen, period. But the 'clinker' in it, is the time schedule. I think it may happen shortly before, during, or after the Second Coming. The reason I do so, is because of Ezekiel 37:24 about King David. King David is past history, he's dead, but if he is in the first resurrection, he can be the King! Or from 1st Samuel 13:14 and Acts 13:22, because 'the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart' after Saul failed as the leader of Israel, David was chosen to lead Israel. David and Jesus may be used as a synonym. Jesus will be the one shepherd of Israel." said Pamela.
"That sounds like a fair assumption. It blends together well. The gathering of Israel may not be in an instant, but the sealing of the servants happens before the times of the curses. And the following chapters in Revelation may not all be chronological. Chapter 11 is the two witnesses in Jerusalem." said Michael. But Michael also has a another explanation of the witnesses. "I have also heard another explanation of witnesses. They are history. They are the martyrs, those that were killed for standing up for the Word of God."
Michael explains more of Chapter 7 of Revelation. "The curses can be history. The sun and the moon fell to the earth during the dark ages. It was a time of barbarians, people didn't think, kind of like now when America is in an era of humanist teaching. 'We came from nothing and will return to nothing and humans are their own masters of the future.' " said Michael.
"That makes it a fair time schedule. The Second Coming could be anytime! We don't have to wait for anything. Then what about the Two Witnesses? Can we personify them?" asked Pamela.
Michael had talked to some people about the Witnesses. "Some people don't personify the Witnesses. They make them the Bible, the First Testament and the Second Testament. Or Jeremiah 11:16 refers to green olive trees, the House of Judah and the House of Israel. But I like to personify them. Otherwise it's hard to get them to stop the heavens of rain and to breath fire. But the problem with the Witnesses is Revelation 22:19, they can't change the Word of God. So they are just telling about the Word, which is being a Teacher, not a prophet!"
"But what is another definition of a prophet? Someone that can tell the future. They don't have to change the Word of God. They may be teachers that tell the future." said Pamela.
"Hmmmm, All right, I guess that could work out. Okay." Michael pauses and sits back in his chair. Pamela looks into his eyes, "Something is ticking."
"Why couldn't it be both! The witnesses are people to represent the House of Judah and the House of Israel! They are teachers because they base their message on the Word of God, and they are prophets because they 'fillintheblanks!' They tell us what the Word of God means. Most mainstream Christians don't know what the Bible means. That's how they derive 'cheap grace': 'believe in Jesus and do as you please!'" states Michael.
"You're definitely correct there!" Pamela says with a sparkle in her eyes. Pamela is assured that she is in the best situation in her life with a man that studies the Word and agrees with her!
Michael then looks at Revelation Chapter 12 in his Bible. "The Revelation of John does not appear to be in an exact chronological order. The war in heaven happened before the foundation of the world. Look at verse five: 'And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.' That is Christ. That happened two thousand years ago. Satan lost the war in heaven and was cast down to the earth long ago."
"I read a book called Watchkeeper's Cry and the author took the book of Revelation chronologically, so he made it so Satan loses the war in heaven midway in a seven year tribulation. No matter of the time schedule, Christ will rule all nations with a rod of iron, and I'm on his team!" said Pamela.
"That is correct. So Chapter 12 is okay, but look at thirteen. I go with Joseph Clark from his talk. The early reformers identified the beast as the Vatican! I understand that it 'died' in about 1896, in some political nature and a few years later the Vatican was put back in power of the Catholic church. Another tie to the Vatican is Chapter 17:9. The seven heads are seven mountains that the Mother of Harlots sits. There happen to be seven famous mountains in Rome, where the Vatican is located."
"Now, here is some interesting stuff in Chapter thirteen verse sixteen: 'And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:' There are two ways to take that verse, literally or symbolically. The Beast has people receive a mark in their right hand or foreheads, or the Beast influences people to think and act the way he wants!" exclaims Michael. “The 'right hand' represents what one does, and the 'forehead' stands for what you think!”
Pamela sits back in her chair, and comments "The literal way has some funny 'reallife' happenings now. Some people put a GPS chip on their horses, and some agricultural groups REQUIRE GPS chips on cattle! They wanted people to put chips in their chickens too, but the cost ruled it out. So if some radical leader wants to index his people via a GPS for his database, it's right here now!"
Michael sits back with a pondering look as he lifts his eyes from the end of Chapter thirteen. "Pamela, look at verse fifteen: 'And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.' Looks like we're goners, huh?"
"If the Devil kills us, it's just a parttime situation, after resurrection, we are with Jesus forever! Moving right along, look at Chapter 14 verse nine and ten: 'And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:' If we go the other way, we suffer fire and brimstone. I like the life with Jesus forever." said Pamela.
Michael pauses and looks out the window to some running prairie dogs. “In God's justice, are people of the last days have life any tougher than people in the beginning?”
Pamela blurts out “It seems like it! The mark of the beast seems to be a future occurrence.”
“Are you sure? What is the 'unforgivable sin?'” asks Michael.
“It's a lackofconscience, denying the power of the Holy Ghost!” said Pamela.
“Looking at a symbolic interpretation of the mark of the beast, and the beast is either Satan or a being under the power of Satan, where the beast controls ones thoughts and actions. When a person is under the control of Satan, does the Holy Ghost have any power?” asks Michael.
“NO! That means that the 'mark of the beast' is the same as the 'unforgivable sin!” blurts Pamela. “That means that in God's justice, people of any age have life just as difficult or easy in God's Plan for us!”
“You've got it! It's no GPS chip, no social security number, no physical item that was not on earth at the beginning! Oh! In God's grace and justice!” exclaims Michael. “That means that the 9/11 hijackers had the 'mark of the beast.' They committed meditated murder on over 3,000 people. It means that girls that get abortions once and again and again and again, have sex for their own pleasure, and don't see their stewardship to an unborn human being, but a piece of human flesh to be destroyed, have the 'mark of the beast!'”
“But I have met girls that felt the promptings of the Holy Ghost, who felt the murder of their own flesh, who repented of the sin and witness to other girls to never have abortions.” said Pamela.
“You are correct! 'All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.' Even as Christians, we sin, that's a fact of life. But we try to not repeat the same sin over and over again! When we do something wrong, the Holy Ghost works on us, and we feel GUILT! And we don't like the guilt and so we stop doing what causes the guilt. The Holy Spirit works with us. It talks to us, and as long as we listen, we are on God's team.” said Michael.
“But if we decide to 'change the rules,' change man's laws, to eliminate guilt, that seems to mean that we have the 'markofthebeast!'” proclaimed Pamela. “So when someone 'sins against the Holy Ghost,' that is, denies the Holy Ghost, or denies Christ, that is the 'mark of the beast?” asks Pamela.
“Correct, when the Holy Spirit has no influence on you, when you do not want to be in God's Kingdom, you have the 'mark of the beast.' Notice that God always wants one of His creation to be in His Kingdom. Look at John 3;17 'For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.'” said Michael.
“And it seems that this 'mark of the beast' thinking is a gradual sort of thing. Some of the girls I have talked to seemed to be in Revelation 21:8 'But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.' They were mean liars with a different guy each month it seemed.” said Pamela.
“But from their stories, it was not always that way. One of the girls mentioned that she did not feel a lot of love in her home, so she started, at an early age, young teens, trying to influence boys to 'love' her. That was usually in a bed. She felt a superficial sort of love, but it was more than she got at home. At around fourteen, she was pregnant, and her folks told her to get an abortion. She did, but she felt guilty. She had a friend that showed her the ultrasound picture of a threemonth old fetus. She could see the arms, hands, legs and the head of the baby. But between her folks and public school counselor, she had an abortion.” said Pamela.
“And as she explained it all, as she aged, she hardened her heart to life. She needed love, but she never found the real thing. Her life was filled with what was first presented to her as real love, but when she got pregnant, the boy dumped her and she got an abortion.”
“She had a very thick layer of emotional skin. It took a long time to get the stories out of her. I quickly presented Jesus and the Gospel to her, but she offered rejection of it all. She said Christians are living in a fantasy world. I offered the Pascal logical question: 'If you're right, I have lived a wellrounded Biblical life followed by nothingness. If I'm right, we get the judgment, followed by nothingness for you and eternal life for me.' She looked at me with slight questions in her eyes, then she turned and walked away.”
Pamela turns her eyes back to her Bible and skims over to Chapter Fourteen of Revelation.
"Now look at the rest of Chapter Fourteen, verse twelve and thirteen:
'Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.'”
"So it looks like this beast, that can make the image appear to be alive, will kill us if we do not worship his image. The fire and brimstone from God is one I don't want to endure. Jesus is my hero. He sets the example of life. The life HOWTO is in the Bible. Whoever this beastie is, I'm not in his fan club! How about you Pamela?" said Michael.
"I'm with you! "
"Thank you" said Michael as he stands and hugs Pamela.
"Let's go for a walk!" said Michael as he grabs Pamela's hand and they both bounce out the door.
After about an hour walking down their own County dirt road and looking at the forested bluffs to the south, they decide to go back to their home and finish that Sabbath.
As Pamela and Michael create a supper for that Sabbath, Michael begins a 'Last Days' scriptural checklist.
"As the 'Last Days' approach, what scriptures tell us what to look for?" queries Michael.
"Ezekiel 37 tells of a valley of dead bones that came to life to become a great army for Israel. Then the LORD God unified Judah and Israel to be ONE nation." said Pamela.
"And that may be before, during or after the Second Coming." said Michael.
“How do you know that? How can you set a time for the dead bones?” asked Pamela.
“I don't know why. Let me think about that one.” said Michael as he put his arm around his wife and gave her a hug.
The next day, the first day of the week, or Sunday as it is known in most of the world, Michael received an email from his supervisor telling him of the latest contract the firm opened with the Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal Republic of Germany). It was a type of contract that doesn't happen very often, it's like gambling. A very large amount of money is coordinated with a short amount of time. In this project, 72 hours.
The coding team of nine members had 72 hours to write productive code for the German government's computer network based on Linux, Unix and Microsoft's latest OS. It turns out the the Government's CyberPolice were able to find a weak spot, used by a few crackers to cause trouble, in the Republic's financial system. After Michael was able to digest the goal of the project, he mentioned to Pamela “Here is a project that may take about two weeks of business days to complete, and our firm set up a contract like Wendy's hamburger timelimit. In time, or free from us. Eight other guys that I work with a lot have three days to write the code that has to work! So we get about two days to write the code and a day to debug it.”
Michael gave Pamela a kiss and quickly mentioned that he was going to retire to the studywork room, contact his coworkers, and may or may not be out for some food or sleep in the next three days.
“Can I sneak in and bring some food and drink?” asked Pamela. “Sure, sometimes a little break interruption can unlock my thoughts to where they should be.” said Michael.
Pamela tried to focus on fingerfoods and Mountain Dew: a hamburger, chips and carrot, dill pickles, celery slices. Michael seemed to be content with the food and the work load. So as Michael continued to work, Pamela had a chance to read Ezekiel 37 and First Corinthians 51 and 52: 'Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.' Pamela's thoughts about Israel wander. 'Presently, Israel is so far from being unified about anything. Some of those Israelites are coming right from America, or Russia, or China, some are moderates, some reformed, some fundamentalist. No unification. Maybe it is the first resurrection? And the second coming? How about Zechariah 14: 5 'Thus the LORD my God will come. And all the saints with you.'
'Those are the dead bones. The great army. Then, there is a tie between Ezekiel 38:21 and Zachariah 14:13. They both have brother against brother against neighbor. Looks like a 'freeforall' set up for the unbelievers. And in Revelation 14:13 John says 'blessed are the dead who die in the Lord.....'
'And how about the 'at the last trump' place of First Corinthians? Maybe it is part of the Feast of Trumpets?'
Pamela keeps these thoughts about Israel in her mind as Michael continues his work in his study room. Michael emerges after 36 hours to proclaim that the project work group have coded a basic workable program. There are still some details, cosmetic preferences and bugs to work out. “I want to grab a little sleep to be able to attack the rest of the work.” said Michael as he jumped into a shower to not dirty any bed sheets.
In as much as Michael skipped one night of sleep on Monday, a little early on Tuesday makes for a 4 am wake time on Wednesday. So as Michael sleeps, Pamela thinks of her past reading of Late, Great Planet Earth book by Hal Lindsey. 'The foremost error was a centuries time error on Matthew 24:15 and Daniel 11:31. It was not a future date but a Roman attack in 70 AD. Jesus was answering three questions, when will the temple fall, what is a sign of your coming and when is the end of the age? The 'Abomination of Desolation' was when the temple was destroyed by the Romans, not by a future action.'
Pamela thinks more on Revelation Chapter 13. 'It is related to the Mother of Harlots and the seven mountains where it sits in Chapter 17. The seven mountains represent the Vatican, the priests that they say are between believers and God. In spite of the fact that when Jesus was crucified, the veil in the Temple was torn top to bottom. That means that believers have Jesus as a 'hotline' between God and themselves. Therefore, a priest is not between Jesus and a believer. The Vatican is a little arrogant to make themselves so 'big and important.'
'Then, they make Jesus a liar by going with the Good Friday/Easter resurrection schedule. He said in Matthew 12:40 that he would be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Then, the priests decided to commemorate the wrong thing. We should remember the atonement, the sacrifice Jesus gave. It's on the Lord's Supper, Passover, the day before the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the fifteenth day of the first month as in Exodus 11:26.
Then the Vatican decides to be antisemantic and worship on the wrong day! The first day of the week is a work day, not a church day. Then to support their Good Friday/Easter schedule, the Last Day book writers even misinterpret Daniel 9:2427. The 'he' in the verse is the REAL Messiah, not a false messiah. Jesus ended sacrifices; Jesus was the sacrifice to end all sacrifices! And the 'midst of the week' is Wednesday. And three days and three nights is Wednesday to Thursday to Friday to Saturday. Mary went to the sepulcher at the 'dawn,' the beginning of the first day of the week: Saturday evening.
Then, Pamela thinks of Fox's Book of Martyrs. It shows how many 'Christians' persecuted other Christians! Many deaths were caused by the Vatican, the Church of England, and the Catholic/Protestant terrorists in Ireland! Fox's Book tells of past persecutions, and in the present, the Voice of the Martyrs has lists of hundreds and hundreds of Christians being persecuted. Then, add Hitler and the Third Reich with the Holocaust and the persecution of the Jews. So, as Pamela thinks of past persecutions, there is no need to look to the future to fulfill Biblical prophecy.
Michael has been asleep of awhile and Pamela decides to go to sleep and ponder more on the second beast described by Apostle John: 'I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.' Pamela thinks of the differences between the First Beast and the Second Beast.
Before she decided to go to sleep, Pamela ran across an article about Muslims having a Pope. She delves into the story:
From the Arab Press
Tuesday, June 21, 2005
A Moslem Pope?
In the wake of the death of Pope John Paul II, the Jordanian daily AlDustuor published an unusual commentary, saying that the Arabs should learn from the Catholics and have a Moslem pope!
The following are excerpts from the article by journalist Hussein alRuwashada:
“I know that in Islam no one has the right to be the representative of God on earth. But the fact that millions attended the Pope’s funeral and millions more watched it on television, prompts me to ask, ‘Why shouldn’t the world’s 1.5 billion Moslems have a similar leader?’”
“The Christian world is not as united as the Moslem world, neither religiously, nor geographically, nor politically. Nevertheless, they rally round a man with the stature of the pope. In the Moslem world, there is no man who could accomplish this. So we Moslems are like orphans. We are looking for a leader who is a spiritual father, a moral voice, whom the world will respect. We especially need a pope at a time when we want the world to understand that Islam is not a religion based solely on the sword.”
“Unfortunately, we Moslems are convinced that only the coming of the Mahdi
—the Redeemer—will open the way to the Kingdom of God. But the Christian world, despite its divisions, faces the world with the moral power of one man, whose state [the Vatican] is not even a quarter the size of one of our small cities. Yet he has the power to influence the world.”
“A pope for the Moslems, why not? More than a billion oppressed and persecuted people feel orphaned in this world, where Islam has become a phantom, where terrorists have defined Islam to the world. This pope would have the moral authority to defend the image of Islam and show the world that we, like them, are tolerant people.”
Pamela thinks on the story. 'Would The Islam Pope unite Muslims around the world like a Catholic Pope? Hmmmm.' She thinks of this idea of a 'Pope' for Muslims... someone that rises to be like Mahdi?
By the end of the week, Michael's metabolism had restored to a reasonable situation. All the work for the Deutschland client was done. It was a nice situation because they paid in Euros, which are stabler than the American dollar. Also, when the company makes any international exchanges, the Euro has nearly a universal acceptance.
“Honey, this work for The Republic of Germany was interesting in that one of our coders is Dan, who spent some time in the Army, whose Grandfather was in the US Army in World War 2, who dealt with General George Patton! The word from the Grandfather was that Patton was not a 'friendlytopeople' kind of person. His soldiers hated him. And in fact, he was killed by 'friendly fire!' He was killed by an American jeep!”
“Wow! But Hollywood takes that General and glorifies him! When his own solders killed him!” said Pamela.
Michael had just finished the last of the company general work, had signed off for the week and was ready to enjoy a weekly Sabbath. Michael informed Pamela of a book he had just found in a book store in Cheyenne a few weeks ago. “I found this in a used book store in Cheyenne. It's called The Next Superpower, by Mark Finley. He uses the same general information about the Vatican to label them as the First Beast. On page 149, in 538 A.D., the Vatican conquered the last of three major powers that were making trouble. Then in 1798 A.D., Napoleon Bonaparte used the murder of a Frenchman in Rome as an excuse to invade Rome and take the Pope as a prisoner. The Beast of the Vatican had a nearly longterm fatality, but after a few years, a Pope was back for the Vatican! The 42 months equals 1260 days that translate to the Biblical 1260 years. The difference between 538 A.D. and 1798 A.D. Equals 1260.”
“But Pamela, I need to critique Finley's book with Steyn's America
Alone. I did some looking into Islam. Mohammad started his revelations in 610 AD. In 1870, Muslims started to immigrate to America. Look at the difference between 610 and 1870...... One thousand two hundred and sixty years! Muslims in America don't HAVE TO WORSHIP ALLAH if they don't WANT TO! They are free to worship whoever they want! I see that as a nearly fatal wound. In light of Mark Steyn's writings and scripture, America will become an Islam State.
Pamela looks confused “Oh. With all the evils of the Vatican, maybe they merge with Islam? Does Finley's book come up with a identity for the Second Beast?”
“Your assumptions are correct. He outlines the Second Beast fairly well. The First Beast came from water, or people. Starting on page 184, Finley outlines all of the identity factors.”
1.The Beast arises from the earth, therefore the Beast is a nation.
2.The Beast arises around the year 1798.
3.The Beast arises friendly to God and His people.
4.The Beast arises without a King.
5.The Beast grows to influence the world.
“Honey, it looks like those five points are fiveoutoffive for the United States of America. But America now is very antiChristian. How can America influence the whole world to worship the first Beast as the Vatican?” exclaims Pamela.
“Pamela, remember Daniel at Campmeeting mention The Third Jihad DVD? Apparently, Mohammad said Islam will rule the whole world. The DVD says American Muslims are targeting 2050 for America to become a Islam State! But look at Revelation 13 verse 13 where the Second Beast causes fire to come from the heavens. Honey, I think that means if America doesn't peacefully become an Islamic State, we get nuked. But I think the Vatican has more to do about that too.”
“Look at Mark 7:9. Jesus is talking to the Pharisees. Jesus says 'Full well ye reject the commandments of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.' The Catholics are just like that. The Vatican makes the rules for the followers to hear. The first people that translated the Bible for people, who didn't know Latin, to read the Word of God were burned at the stake! They changed the worship day from the seventh day to the first day. They baptize babies who have no concept of who Jesus is and why they need to be baptized. They have the timing of the Lord's Supper wrong. They 'makebelieve' to turn Good Friday to Easter into Matthew 12:40 'three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.' Or they just make Jesus a liar!” said Michael.
“A few verses ahead of the verse you mentioned, verse seven looks even better: 'Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.' Do Catholics have 'cheap grace' like many Protestants have?” said Pamela.
“Yes, what they are taught and how they act are two different items, so I think 'cheap grace' exists for Catholics. Not so much 'cheap grace' but Catholics are supposed to WORK their way though Justification and Sanctification. Many Catholics are strong in the faith that the Vatican has given them. Many have died for their faith. They are just like the Pharisees; they are too caught up in their own traditions, than concentrate on God's
Word in the Bible. Maybe the 'worshiping the image of the first Beast' can be taken as 'act in a similar manner.' Maybe.......” said Michael.
“But......what is worshiped is an 'image?' An image is like what you see 100 feet in front of your car on a hot road. It looks like you are going to drive into a lake! The people you see on the television are images, the actors are not inside your TV. The image you see is fake, not the real thing.” said Pamela.
“We worship the LORD and we want to be like His Son Jesus. So maybe 'worshiping the image' is trying to act the same as the Pharisees, to emphasize traditions more than reality. That can be summed up in my father's paper on the State Religion. America has their own version of reality that they teach kids in school every day.
There is no God.
We evolved from a chemical soup billions upon billions of years ago.
Homosexuality is a personal choice, and it is not wrong.
We can study Islam, Buddhism, or any other nonChristian religion, but if we study Christianity, we are 'establishing a religion' and we cannot do that.
So we can see, America's image of 'reality' is not close to God's Word.” said Pamela.
“So right now, if the teachings of America's State Religion are the image of the first Beast, all Americans are not worshiping the image.” said Michael. “Some people believe all of the State Religion and they act like it was true; they believe they 'evolved' from animals so they act that way. But all American citizens are not required to believe any of it.”
Pamela sits back with an intriguing look in her eyes, “How do you think it could be forced upon all citizens? What about the First Amendment and the 'establishment clause?'”
“Well, when the atheist 'scientists' talk about 'scientific facts,' the First Amendment doesn't come into play. We know it is a religion, but the general public thinks it is a proven fact! No problem!” shouts Michael.
“But the government STILL can't make a citizen believe something. There are some real weirdos believing anything you can think of.” said Pamela. “So I don't know how the government can FORCE a certain belief. Like having a social security number is not like a 'mark of the beast.'”.
Michael's face shows a very doubtful expression. “That is of course, if there are no judges that feel that they can interpret