PHAEDRUS: Granted; if you will only please to PHAEDRUS: I think that I understand you; but get on.
will you explain yourself?
SOCRATES: Suppose that you read me the first SOCRATES: When any one speaks of iron and sil-words of Lysias’ speech.
ver, is not the same thing present in the minds of all?
PHAEDRUS: ‘ You know how matters stand with me, and how, as I conceive, they might be ar-PHAEDRUS: Certainly.
ranged for our common interest; and I maintain that I ought not to fail in my suit, because I am SOCRATES: But when any one speaks of justice not your lover. For lovers repent—’
and goodness we part company and are at odds with one another and with ourselves?
SOCRATES: Enough:—Now, shall I point out the rhetorical error of those words?
PHAEDRUS: Precisely.
PHAEDRUS: Yes.
SOCRATES: Then in some things we agree, but not in others?
SOCRATES: Every one is aware that about some things we are agreed, whereas about other things PHAEDRUS: That is true.
we differ.
SOCRATES: In which are we more likely to be 97
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deceived, and in which has rhetoric the greater to the debatable or to the undisputed class?
power?
PHAEDRUS: To the debatable, clearly; for if not, PHAEDRUS: Clearly, in the uncertain class.
do you think that love would have allowed you to say as you did, that he is an evil both to the SOCRATES: Then the rhetorician ought to make lover and the beloved, and also the greatest pos-a regular division, and acquire a distinct notion sible good?
of both classes, as well of that in which the many err, as of that in which they do not err?
SOCRATES: Capital. But will you tell me whether I defined love at the beginning of my speech?
PHAEDRUS: He who made such a distinction for, having been in an ecstasy, I cannot well re-would have an excellent principle.
member.
SOCRATES: Yes; and in the next place he must PHAEDRUS: Yes, indeed; that you did, and no have a keen eye for the observation of particu-mistake.
lars in speaking, and not make a mistake about the class to which they are to be referred.
SOCRATES: Then I perceive that the Nymphs of Achelous and Pan the son of Hermes, who in-PHAEDRUS: Certainly.
spired me, were far better rhetoricians than Lysias the son of Cephalus. Alas! how inferior to SOCRATES: Now to which class does love belong—
them he is! But perhaps I am mistaken; and 98
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Lysias at the commencement of his lover’s the reverse of what he ought; for he has begun speech did insist on our supposing love to be at the end, and is swimming on his back through something or other which he fancied him to be, the flood to the place of starting. His address to and according to this model he fashioned and the fair youth begins where the lover would have framed the remainder of his discourse. Suppose ended. Am I not right, sweet Phaedrus?
we read his beginning over again: PHAEDRUS: Yes, indeed, Socrates; he does be-PHAEDRUS: If you please; but you will not find gin at the end.
what you want.
SOCRATES: Then as to the other topics—are they SOCRATES: Read, that I may have his exact not thrown down anyhow? Is there any principle words.
in them? Why should the next topic follow next in order, or any other topic? I cannot help fancy-PHAEDRUS: ‘ You know how matters stand with ing in my ignorance that he wrote off boldly just me, and how, as I conceive, they might be ar-what came into his head, but I dare say that you ranged for our common interest; and I maintain would recognize a rhetorical necessity in the suc-I ought not to fail in my suit because I am not cession of the several parts of the composition?
your lover, for lovers repent of the kindnesses which they have shown, when their love is over. ’
PHAEDRUS: You have too good an opinion of me if you think that I have any such insight into his SOCRATES: Here he appears to have done just principles of composition.