STRANGER: There remain, however, natures still ence, and what is precious and of a kindred nature more troublesome, because they are more nearly has been left; there remain the nobler arts of the akin to the king, and more difficult to discern; the general and the judge, and the higher sort of ora-examination of them may be compared to the pro-tory which is an ally of the royal art, and persuades cess of refining gold.
men to do justice, and assists in guiding the helm of States:—How can we best clear away all these, YOUNG SOCRATES: What is your meaning?
leaving him whom we seek alone and unalloyed?
STRANGER: The workmen begin by sifting away YOUNG SOCRATES: That is obviously what has the earth and stones and the like; there remain in a in some way to be attempted.
confused mass the valuable elements akin to gold, which can only be separated by fire,—copper, sil-STRANGER: If the attempt is all that is wanting, ver, and other precious metal; these are at last re-he shall certainly be brought to light; and I think fined away by the use of tests, until the gold is left that the illustration of music may assist in exhibit-quite pure.
ing him. Please to answer me a question.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, that is the way in which YOUNG SOCRATES: What question?
these things are said to be done.
STRANGER: There is such a thing as learning mu-STRANGER: In like manner, all alien and uncon-sic or handicraft arts in general?
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YOUNG SOCRATES: There is.
STRANGER: You mean to say that the science which judges whether we ought to learn or not, must STRANGER: And is there any higher art or science, be superior to the science which is learned or which having power to decide which of these arts are and teaches?
are not to be learned;—what do you say?
YOUNG SOCRATES: Far superior.
YOUNG SOCRATES: I should answer that there is.
STRANGER: And the science which determines whether we ought to persuade or not, must be su-STRANGER: And do we acknowledge this science perior to the science which is able to persuade?
to be different from the others?
YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.
STRANGER: Very good; and to what science do STRANGER: And ought the other sciences to be we assign the power of persuading a multitude by a superior to this, or no single science to any other?
pleasing tale and not by teaching?
Or ought this science to be the overseer and governor of all the others?
YOUNG SOCRATES: That power, I think, must clearly be assigned to rhetoric.
YOUNG SOCRATES: The latter.
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power of determining whether we are to employ YOUNG SOCRATES: What science?
persuasion or force towards any one, or to refrain altogether?
STRANGER: The science which has to do with military operations against our enemies—is that to YOUNG SOCRATES: To that science which gov-be regarded as a science or not?
erns the arts of speech and persuasion.
YOUNG SOCRATES: How can generalship and STRANGER: Which, if I am not mistaken, will be military tactics be regarded as other than a science?
politics?
STRANGER: And is the art which is able and knows YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.
how to advise when we are to go to war, or to make peace, the same as this or different?
STRANGER: Rhetoric seems to be quickly distinguished from politics, being a different species, yet YOUNG SOCRATES: If we are to be consistent, ministering to it.
we must say different.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.
STRANGER: And we must also suppose that this rules the other, if we are not to give up our former STRANGER: But what would you think of another notion?
sort of power or science?
YOUNG SOCRATES: True.