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POLUS: And so you think that he who slays any one whom POLUS: Then would you rather suffer than do injustice?
he pleases, and justly slays him, is pitiable and wretched?
SOCRATES: I should not like either, but if I must choose SOCRATES: No, I do not say that of him: but neither do between them, I would rather suffer than do.
I think that he is to be envied.
POLUS: Then you would not wish to be a tyrant?
POLUS: Were you not saying just now that he is wretched?
SOCRATES: Not if you mean by tyranny what I mean.
SOCRATES: Yes, my friend, if he killed another unjustly, in which case he is also to be pitied; and he is not to be POLUS: I mean, as I said before, the power of doing what-envied if he killed him justly.
ever seems good to you in a state, killing, banishing, doing in all things as you like.
POLUS: At any rate you will allow that he who is unjustly put to death is wretched, and to be pitied?
SOCRATES: Well then, illustrious friend, when I have said my say, do you reply to me. Suppose that I go into a crowded SOCRATES: Not so much, Polus, as he who kills him, Agora, and take a dagger under my arm. Polus, I say to and not so much as he who is justly killed.
you, I have just acquired rare power, and become a tyrant; for if I think that any of these men whom you see ought to POLUS: How can that be, Socrates?
be put to death, the man whom I have a mind to kill is as good as dead; and if I am disposed to break his head or SOCRATES: That may very well be, inasmuch as doing tear his garment, he will have his head broken or his gar-injustice is the greatest of evils.
ment torn in an instant. Such is my great power in this city.
And if you do not believe me, and I show you the dagger, POLUS: But is it the greatest? Is not suffering injustice a you would probably reply: Socrates, in that sort of way any greater evil?
one may have great powerhe may burn any house which he pleases, and the docks and triremes of the Athenians, SOCRATES: Certainly not.
and all their other vessels, whether public or privatebut 85
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can you believe that this mere doing as you think best is POLUS: Certainly.
great power?
SOCRATES: About that you and I may be supposed to POLUS: Certainly not such doing as this.
agree?
SOCRATES: But can you tell me why you disapprove of POLUS: Yes.
such a power?
SOCRATES: Tell me, then, when do you say that they are good POLUS: I can.
and when that they are evilwhat principle do you lay down?
SOCRATES: Why then?
POLUS: I would rather, Socrates, that you should answer as well as ask that question.
POLUS: Why, because he who did as you say would be certain to be punished.
SOCRATES: Well, Polus, since you would rather have the answer from me, I say that they are good when they are SOCRATES: And punishment is an evil?
just, and evil when they are unjust.
POLUS: Certainly.
POLUS: You are hard of refutation, Socrates, but might not a child refute that statement?
SOCRATES: And you would admit once more, my good sir, that great power is a benefit to a man if his actions turn SOCRATES: Then I shall be very grateful to the child, out to his advantage, and that this is the meaning of great and equally grateful to you if you will refute me and deliver power; and if not, then his power is an evil and is no power.
me from my foolishness. And I hope that refute me you But let us look at the matter in another way:do we not will, and not weary of doing good to a friend.
acknowledge that the things of which we were speaking, the infliction of death, and exile, and the deprivation of prop-POLUS: Yes, Socrates, and I need not go far or appeal to erty are sometimes a good and sometimes not a good?
antiquity; events which happened only a few days ago are 86
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enough to refute you, and to prove that many men who do SOCRATES: Yes, indeed, Polus, that is my doctrine; the wrong are happy.
men and women who are gentle and good are also happy, as I maintain, and the unjust and evil are miserable.
SOCRATES: What events?
POLUS: Then, according to your doctrine, the said POLUS: You see, I presume, that Archelaus the son of Archelaus is miserable?
Perdiccas is now the ruler of Macedonia?
SOCRATES: Yes, my friend, if he is wicked.
SOCRATES: At any rate I hear that he is.
POLUS: That he is wicked I cannot deny; for he had no POLUS: And do you think that he is happy or miserable?
title at all to the throne which he now occupies, he being only the son of a woman who was the slave of Alcetas the SOCRATES: I cannot say, Polus, for I have never had any brother of Perdiccas; he himself therefore in strict right was acquaintance with him.
the slave of Alcetas; and if he had meant to do rightly he would have remained his slave, and then, according to your POLUS: And cannot you tell at once, and without having doctrine, he would have been happy. But now he is un-an acquaintance with him, whether a man is happy?
speakably miserable, for he has been guilty of the greatest crimes: in the first place he invited his uncle and master, SOCRATES: Most certainly not.
Alcetas, to come to him, under the pretence that he would restore to him the throne which Perdiccas has usurped, and POLUS: Then clearly, Socrates, you would say that you after entertaining him and his son Alexander, who was his did not even know whether the great king was a happy man?
own cousin, and nearly of an age with him, and making them drunk, he threw them into a waggon and carried them SOCRATES: And I should speak the truth; for I do not off by night, and slew them, and got both of them out of the know how he stands in the matter of education and justice.
way; and when he had done all this wickedness he never discovered that he was the most miserable of all men, and POLUS: What! and does all happiness consist in this?
was very far from repenting: shall I tell you how he showed 87
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his remorse? he had a younger brother, a child of seven in courts of law. For there the one party think that they years old, who was the legitimate son of Perdiccas, and to refute the other when they bring forward a number of wit-him of right the kingdom belonged; Archelaus, however, nesses of good repute in proof of their allegations, and their had no mind to bring him up as he ought and restore the adversary has only a single one or none at all. But this kind kingdom to him; that was not his notion of happiness; but of proof is of no value where truth is the aim; a man may not long afterwards he threw him into a well and drowned often be sworn down by a multitude of false witnesses who him, and declared to his mother Cleopatra that he had fallen have a great air of respectability. And in this argument nearly in while running after a goose, and had been killed. And every one, Athenian and stranger alike, would be on your now as he is the greatest criminal of all the Macedonians, side, if you should bring witnesses in disproof of my state-he may be supposed to be the most miserable and not the ment;you may, if you will, summon Nicias the son of happiest of them, and I dare say that there are many Athe-Niceratus, and let his brothers, who gave the row of tripods nians, and you would be at the head of them, who would which stand in the precincts of Dionysus, come with him; rather be any other Macedonian than Archelaus!
or you may summon Aristocrates, the son of Scellius, who is the giver of that famous offering which is at Delphi; sum-SOCRATES: I praised you at first, Polus, for being a rheto-mon, if you will, the whole house of Pericles, or any other rician rather than a reasoner. And this, as I suppose, is the great Athenian family whom you choose;they will all agree sort of argument with which you fancy that a child might with you: I only am left alone and cannot agree, for you do refute me, and by which I stand refuted when I say that the not convince me; although you produce many false witnesses unjust man is not happy. But, my good friend, where is the against me, in the hope of depriving me of my inheritance, refutation? I cannot admit a word which you have been which is the truth. But I consider that nothing worth speak-saying.
ing of will have been effected by me unless I make you the one witness of my words; nor by you, unless you make me POLUS: That is because you will not; for you surely must the one witness of yours; no matter about the rest of the think as I do.
world. For there are two ways of refutation, one which is yours and that of the world in general; but mine is of an-SOCRATES: Not so, my simple friend, but because you other sortlet us compare them, and see in what they dif-will refute me after the manner which rhetoricians practise fer. For, indeed, we are at issue about matters which to 88
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know is honourable and not to know disgraceful; to know retribution, and less miserable if he be punished and meets or not to know happiness and miserythat is the chief of with retribution at the hands of gods and men.
them. And what knowledge can be nobler? or what ignorance more disgraceful than this? And therefore I will be-POLUS: You are maintaining a strange doctrine, Socrates.
gin by asking you whether you do not think that a man who is unjust and doing injustice can be happy, seeing that you SOCRATES: I shall try to make you agree with me, O my think Archelaus unjust, and yet happy? May I assume this friend, for as a friend I regard you. Then these are the points to be your opinion?
at issue between usare they not? I was saying that to do is worse than to suffer injustice?
POLUS: Certainly.
POLUS: Exactly so.
SOCRATES: But I say that this is an impossibilityhere is one point about which we are at issue:very good. And do SOCRATES: And you said the opposite?
you mean to say also that if he meets with retribution and punishment he will still be happy?
POLUS: Yes.
POLUS: Certainly not; in that case he will be most miser-SOCRATES: I said also that the wicked are miserable, and able.
you refuted me?
SOCRATES: On the other hand, if the unjust be not pun-POLUS: By Zeus, I did.
ished, then, according to you, he will be happy?
SOCRATES: In your own opinion, Polus.
POLUS: Yes.
POLUS: Yes, and I rather suspect that I was in the right.
SOCRATES: But in my opinion, Polus, the unjust or doer of unjust actions is miserable in any case,more miserable, SOCRATES: You further said that the wrong-doer is happy however, if he be not punished and does not meet with if he be unpunished?