SOCRATES: And what do you think of these Soph-and make yourself agreeable to them; for ists, who are the only professors? Do they seem from the good you will learn what is good, to you to be teachers of virtue?
but if you mix with the bad you will lose MENO: I often wonder, Socrates, that Gorgias is the intelligence which you already have.’
never heard promising to teach virtue: and when he hears others promising he only laughs at Do you observe that here he seems to imply that them; but he thinks that men should be taught virtue can be taught?
to speak.
MENO: Clearly.
SOCRATES: Then do you not think that the Soph-SOCRATES: But in some other verses he shifts ists are teachers?
about and says (Theog.):
MENO: I cannot tell you, Socrates; like the rest of the world, I am in doubt, and sometimes I think
‘If understanding could be created and put that they are teachers and sometimes not.
into a man, then they’ (who were able to SOCRATES: And are you aware that not you only perform this feat) ‘would have obtained and other politicians have doubts whether vir-great rewards.’
tue can be taught or not, but that Theognis the poet says the very same thing?
And again:—
MENO: Where does he say so?
SOCRATES: In these elegiac verses (Theog.):
‘Never would a bad son have sprung from a good sire, for he would have heard the
‘Eat and drink and sit with the mighty, voice of instruction; but not by teaching 65
Meno
will you ever make a bad man into a good SOCRATES: And if there are no teachers, neither o n e . ’
are there disciples?
MENO: Agreed.
And this, as you may remark, is a contradiction SOCRATES: And we have admitted that a thing of the other.
cannot be taught of which there are neither teach-MENO: Clearly.
ers nor disciples?
SOCRATES: And is there anything else of which MENO: We have.
the professors are affirmed not only not to be SOCRATES: And there are no teachers of virtue teachers of others, but to be ignorant themselves, to be found anywhere?
and bad at the knowledge of that which they are MENO: There are not.
professing to teach? or is there anything about SOCRATES: And if there are no teachers, neither which even the acknowledged ‘gentlemen’ are are there scholars?
sometimes saying that ‘this thing can be MENO: That, I think, is true.
taught,’ and sometimes the opposite? Can you SOCRATES: Then virtue cannot be taught?
say that they are teachers in any true sense MENO: Not if we are right in our view. But I can-whose ideas are in such confusion?
not believe, Socrates, that there are no good men: MENO: I should say, certainly not.
And if there are, how did they come into exist-SOCRATES: But if neither the Sophists nor the ence?
gentlemen are teachers, clearly there can be no SOCRATES: I am afraid, Meno, that you and I are other teachers?
not good for much, and that Gorgias has been as MENO: No.
poor an educator of you as Prodicus has been of 66
Meno
me. Certainly we shall have to look to ourselves, MENO: What do you mean by the word ‘right’?
and try to find some one who will help in some SOCRATES: I will explain. If a man knew the way way or other to improve us. This I say, because I to Larisa, or anywhere else, and went to the place observe that in the previous discussion none of and led others thither, would he not be a right us remarked that right and good action is pos-and good guide?
sible to man under other guidance than that of MENO: Certainly.
knowledge (episteme);—and indeed if this be SOCRATES: And a person who had a right opinion denied, there is no seeing how there can be any about the way, but had never been and did not good men at all.
know, might be a good guide also, might he not?
MENO: How do you mean, Socrates?
MENO: Certainly.
SOCRATES: I mean that good men are necessar-SOCRATES: And while he has true opinion about ily useful or profitable. Were we not right in ad-that which the other knows, he will be just as mitting this? It must be so.
good a guide if he thinks the truth, as he who MENO: Yes.
knows the truth?
SOCRATES: And in supposing that they will be MENO: Exactly.
useful only if they are true guides to us of ac-SOCRATES: Then true opinion is as good a guide tion—there we were also right?
to correct action as knowledge; and that was the MENO: Yes.
point which we omitted in our speculation about SOCRATES: But when we said that a man cannot the nature of virtue, when we said that knowl-be a good guide unless he have knowledge edge only is the guide of right action; whereas (phrhonesis), this we were wrong.
there is also right opinion.