Grief is a Season, not a Life Sentence
CHRIS VESTER
How did you two meet?
JEFF WENDT
We met on Christian Mingle. When you see a person that you like, you can either send a heart or a winky face emoji to show that you’re interested in them. I opted for the winky face. I didn’t want to come off as too excited or desperate. Then Ali responded.
ALI WENDT
I saw his profile. I didn't pay for the service, so I only saw a part of his profile. I saw that he was a pastor and a widower. I hadn’t met a widower and I thought he was cute. I got excited when I saw his profile. Then I overthought what I was going to say and ask, so I ended up asking him about where he went to college. After I sent him the message I didn’t hear back, which is not unusual for online dating.
JEFF WENDT
Around that same time, I reached a point that I was over the whole online dating thing. I deleted my online dating profiles. I told God that I was putting my trust in Him. I felt like God would bring forth the next Mrs. Wendt through my network.
ALI WENDT
Then I got together with a friend of mine from Bible study, and she asked me how dating was going. I told her it was rough, but there was only one man I was excited about. I told her he was a cute pastor and a widower, but that I never heard back from him. She asked me, “Do you mean Jeff?” Confused, I confirmed that was his name. She pulled up Facebook and pulled up his profile and asked me, “Is this him?” and it was him. Then she told me how she grew up with him and that he was an amazing human being. She asked, “Can I reach out to him and let him know? I think he’d want to connect with you.” I said yes, and that’s when she reached out to Jeff.
JEFF WENDT
She reached out to me via Facebook Messenger, and asked "Are you interested in dating?" I said yes, depending on who the person was. Then she told me about Ali, who was one of her best friends and a widow. She told me Ali was one of the most incredible humans she’d ever met. I agreed to go out with Ali, and our friend gave me her information. This happened during the height of the pandemic, July of 2020.
ALI WENDT
After my friend gave him my number, four weeks passed, and I still hadn’t heard from him. I remember thinking, "What's up with this guy? If he’s not interested, that's fine."
JEFF WENDT
During that season of my life, I told our mutual friend that I was focusing on my kids. At the time I was a widower and a single father of five. In August of 2020 the kids and I decided to travel west. We went on a road trip to see some friends and went to Yellowstone. I told her I would reach out to Ali when I got back.
ALI WENDT
Our friend told me he had a lot going on but planned to reach out when he was back. I tucked the idea away and thought, “If it happens great, if it doesn’t, that’s fine too.” Then on September 16th he reached out.
JEFF WENDT
The 16th was a very important day for me. The kids were back in school for the first time in six months. I was sitting in my office and thinking, when I felt the Holy Spirit say to me, “Text her.” I sent her a text and said, "Hey, Ali. This is Jeff Wendt. I got your number from a friend of ours, and I'm so sorry it's taken me so long to reach out. Would you still be interested in grabbing a cup of coffee?"
ALI WENDT
I said, "Absolutely."
JEFF WENDT
I was shocked.
ALI WENDT
We met up that following Friday morning at 11 o'clock for coffee, and it turned into lunch. Then, I had to pick up the kids from school at 3:00pm, so we finally said goodbye. Before we left, Jeff asked, “Can we do this again?” and I said, “Absolutely.” From there our relationship progressed quickly because he had a strong sense early on that this was it.
JEFF WENDT
We weren't dating for fun. When you're a widow and a widower, and a single father of five and a single mother of two, with full-time jobs, and full-time lives, dating isn’t about figuring out if we like each other. We met and got married in about two and a half months. We've known each other for about 17 months total. We knew who we were and what we wanted out of life. I told Ali I was entering the relationship with my heart wide open and total vulnerability.
On our second date, Ali asked me a question that leveled me and made me realize I need her in my life forever. We were talking about the way I was raised, what life was like, my previous marriage, and how unique that marriage was. Then Ali asked me, "Have you ever truly needed anyone in your entire life?" It was such an intuitive question. She made me realize that I wasn’t sure if I had even been dependent on God my entire life. That was when I realized I needed her in my life. I had been in the ministry for 25 years and the lead pastor for 10 years, and she made me realize I had never been fully dependent upon God.
CHRIS VESTER
Sometimes people say they think people will question their salvation because they struggle with it every day. For a pastor to ask himself the question, “Have I ever submitted?” is powerful. Ali, what made you ask that question? What led to that?
ALI WENDT
We were trying hard to discover who we were, and we were being vulnerable. I wasn’t going to put on a front because I didn’t want to get into something that wasn’t right. I wasn’t going to sell him on something about me that wasn’t true. We spent so much time talking about our hearts and who we are. We had both been on a journey of self-discovery in the process of grieving our spouses. You question your identity in that process. Mentally, that’s where I was.
JEFF WENDT
When you get to a space in life where no one plans on being and no one ever wants to be – a widow or a widower – questioning your identity becomes part of what you do. Scripturally speaking, when you get married, two become one. Part of them is part of me and vice versa. When that is torn away and you’re in a new space you must figure out who you are without your spouse. Biblically speaking, you're supposed to lean in, become one, and build life together. When that massive gaping wound is opened and a portion of you is removed, you must figure out who you are with God alone. I had to figure out my identity when it was just Jesus and me. It was important to be vulnerable, show our authentic selves, and show who we are with Jesus.
ALI WENDT
We both wanted oneness, intimacy, and the ability to dive deep for our future marriage. Part of it was like an invitation asking if he was willing to go there, reflect, and talk about the tough things. I need to know that he was there.
SUZANNE VESTER
Ali, using your words of trauma, grief, growth, restoration, healing, and redemption, when you look back over the last five years can you see the different pivot points in your life? When you two were first getting to know each other can you see moments where God was preparing you to be open to possibilities?
ALI WENDT
It's a blessing to see the way God has prepared us, and the way that He's worked through these different challenges. I believe that's the case in everyone's life, but you're not always at a point where you can look back and reflect on that. I remember when it started for me. About eight years ago I was praying out of frustration because I felt like I couldn’t break free from some of the things I struggled with in my life. I asked God to take it all. That’s where my journey started. The struggle we had when we adopted our two boys and what we learned through that was important. There are many points where we can look back and see God planted that dream or desire 10 years ago, and now it’s coming to fruition today.
JEFF WENDT
Ali, you should tell them about the dream you had for your family, the challenges that went with that, and where we are today.
ALI WENDT
When I was about 15 years old, I felt like God put it in my heart to adopt. I would imagine scenarios of adopting a baby and going to pick it up. I planted that idea in my heart. When I got older, I decided I wanted to have a big and diverse family. My first husband, Tyler, was game for the adoption. We also wanted to have kids biologically. We were laid back and decided to try to have kids biologically and if that didn’t happen to figure it out from there. After not getting pregnant, we thought God was leading us to adopt first. We adopted Elijah, and then two years later I started having major health issues. I ended up having a hysterectomy. That’s when we realized we would grow our family through adoption.
It was tough to process, but God had already prepared me and prepared my heart for this. That was such a gift. Then we adopted Amos and were talking about adopting a third child when Tyler passed away. When he died, I thought my dream of having a big family also died. I was struggling so much as a single mom with two little boys. Amos was nine months and Elijah was three years old. It was tough. No part of me wanted a big family anymore. It felt like a bit of my heart died. Then, I met Jeff.
JEFF WENDT
When Ali told me that, I was taken aback by it because my wife, Tiffany, passed away after a three-year battle with cancer in July of 2019. I went through intensive counseling and led my kids, myself, and even the church, through the trauma of losing someone so dear and someone we all loved so much. Then I came to a space where I began to feel like I would always miss her and mourn the loss. In Genesis it says that the wife is meant to be the ezer or the helpmate. Oftentimes we hear helpmate, and we think it applies to the female because it’s used three or four times to refer to his wife. It’s used an additional 16-plus times, however, to describe God in Hebrew.
When you find the helpmate suitable for you, it's a sign of God's favor on your life. It felt that way when I found Ali, because I was missing that in the loss of Tiffany. I remember when I started dating and I put on my profile that I was a widower and a father to five kids, thinking that many people might think of the kids as baggage. I didn’t think anyone would want to marry a widower. Then when I met Ali, and she shared her vision of wanting to adopt and have a large multiracial family and then having to have a hysterectomy, I said, “Only God could do that.” Now, Ali is the mother of seven children from three different biological mothers, and she’s never given birth. That was a profound pivot point in our story.
CHRIS VESTER
Jeff, we met at an event in Utah, and we did a lot of Wim Hof breathing. It was the first time I had experienced anything like that. You discussed dealing with grief, going to counseling, and leading your congregation in that. It had been eight months since your wife passed away and the breakthrough you had using those exercises was massive. Can you talk about how that worked into your grief. Have you been able to share that with Ali?
JEFF WENDT
We were in ice pools together, breathing and freezing. Then we would lay on our back and do deep Wim Hof breathing sessions. The idea is to go to spaces in your heart and in your mind. The day before we left after being there for 36 hours, I came to a point where I knew my soul needed healing. When I talk about soul and when you read what the ancients used to consider their soul, it consists of our mind, will, and emotions. I asked God for a deep healing work there. As I was breathing deeply, I was envisioning walking through Psalm 23 in my mind, "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I'll fear no evil." Then we went on a mountain hike, and I walked through the valley of death, not just the shadow of death. I remember thinking, "You're with me. Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. They restore my soul." That's David writing that. In that moment I had a breakthrough and felt the weight of the world lifted from my shoulders.
This was a profound moment of healing and vulnerability for me. I'm not always the most vulnerable person. Sometimes I'm a bit guarded, but in that moment, I felt like I had to do that. I felt like it was a breakthrough moment for me, and for some others in the space. When I came back from the trip, close family members said something shifted in me during that time. I believe it was God restoring my soul because my soul had been bruised, battered, beaten, and broken with the loss of Tiffany and the three years leading up to cancer, building a church, and being a father of five. It was not an easy season for me.
CHRIS VESTER
Ali let’s talk about how you dealt with grief. Jeff talked about going to therapy after Tiffany died. What steps did you take when Tyler passed away?
ALI WENDT
I went to therapy. I started studying the Enneagram, which was a huge piece of figuring out my identity and understanding myself better. There were some patterns in my life that weren't healthy in a relationship. I'm an Enneagram four, and we tend to have a fear of abandonment. When there's an issue in a relationship, we'll distance ourselves and disconnect. I'd seen that pattern in my life many times, but never understood or identified what it was and where it was coming from. Digging into that was amazing. I started studying about wholeness, health, and relationships. I was digging down to the root of my personal belief system.
If there are things in your life you’re always frustrated with, like bad fruit or patterns in your relationships, you should dig deep for understanding instead of treating the symptom. You want to figure out why you’re acting that way, why you react that way, and where the root of the issue comes from. I started studying who I am and who God made me to be. It’s given me freedom to figure out my blind spots, insecurities, health, and unhealed wounds. I went after everything that was holding me back.
SUZANNE VESTER
You lead yourselves individually and together well. To progress and be able to be our best selves and be the ministry and the hands and feet that God intended, we must lead ourselves well. If someone is knee-deep, eyeball-deep into a situation like yours, how can they begin to lead themselves well, so they can heal and become alive again? How can they share their story to inspire and heal others?
ALI WENDT
It’s important to focus on yourself first, which is difficult when you have kids going through the same grief as well. It can be natural to focus on your children and steward the things God has given you, but you end up neglecting yourself. We both understood we couldn’t steward anything well if we’re unwell ourselves. I even was criticized for how much I did for myself to heal and get healthy. It took a lot of focus. It was key to give myself that time and to get the resources I needed to become healthy for me and my boys. My boys were never going to be healthy if I wasn’t.
JEFF WENDT
Oftentimes people think that self-care is hokey, or even selfish, whereas I think of self-care as strategic. Early after my wife passed, I remembered the flight attendant’s spiel before takeoff and how they say to put your mask on first before helping others. The same was true after Tiffany died. I understood, if I went sideways, my kids would go sideways, my staff at the church would go sideways, and those who attended the church would go sideways. I had to make sure I was holistically caring for myself first. I had to make sure I was okay mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, relationally, and financially. Sometimes as a widow or widower the amount of sympathy you receive can be intoxicating. You can end up perpetuating the idea that you’re the victim, which is why you must take care of yourself first.
ALI WENDT
You always have an excuse, in all things.
JEFF WENDT
We could have blown money. We could have done inappropriate things outside of Scripture and people would have understood because we were in a horrible space. Ali and I were both in a space where we were determined not to live that way. We're going to honor God in how we live, even in the worst moments or the hardest moments of our life. Stewardship is one of the core values of our lives. One of my mentors, IV Marsh says, "How you do anything is how you do everything." So, how we take care of our bodies is a depiction of how we take care of our bank account, which is a depiction of how we steward our spiritual lives with God.
We can't separate one specific area when it comes to our holistic being. We must address them all. Our self-care led to good self-leadership. John Maxwell says, "The first person you lead is you." If I can't lead myself well, why would Ali follow me? If I can lead my wife, I can lead anyone. Not because she's difficult to lead, but because she knows me best. She knows me in my worst moments. No one on earth knows me better than Ali, and if she's willing to respect me, trust me, and follow me, then that's great. If she's not, that's not her fault. I must figure out what I’m doing wrong. I ask the men at my church, "If your wife's not following you, are you worth following?” I explain it’s not the wife’s fault she isn’t following. Stewardship and self-leadership are key. It’s equally important to surrender to God and to stop arguing with Him.
ALI WENDT
That's not time well spent. That’s not what brings healing. You need to surrender to Him while knowing He’s sovereign and He’s in control. This isn’t a surprise for Him. He is good and has a plan. We must surrender to that plan. We must realize we aren’t the ones in control, God is. Surrendering to that is a huge part of healing.
CHRIS VESTER
As a couple, what is your superpower?
JEFF WENDT
Emotional intelligence and emotional awareness are our superpowers. Ali's an emotional ninja. I was an emotional moron for many years. I was unaware. I'm an Enneagram eight and I need to know where I’m at. In leading people, I would have conversations and say something that seemed clear to me but wasn’t to them because of emotional turmoil. I've learned to be emotionally intelligent through a lot of painful situations. Our emotional awareness and intelligence helped us lead ourselves and our children through grief.
I was always psychoanalyzing them. I would try to figure out what they were walking through. Were they acting a certain way because they just lost their mom, or because of a developmental stage they were walking through? I would want to figure out if they were doing things because they were hormonal or because they were copying a friend at school. It was never an environment I wanted to be part of, but because of the crisis and the loss of Tiffany, that was my reality. I had a choice in how I wanted to respond or react to that. My response was that we were going to get through this together. That was part of my training ground. Then I met Ali and became even more emotionally aware because she’s an emotional ninja.
Ali mentioned that oftentimes we focus on the fruit of our labor rather than the root of an issue. It’s like addressing a symptom when you’re sick instead of addressing your diet or boosting your immune system. Ali is very humble. She wrote a curriculum called Root Worthy where she argues, "Too often we focus on the fruit of our life, rather than the root of our life. We don't know why we're continuing to get the fruit we get, rather than focusing on the root. If you focus on the root and give the root the proper nutrition, you're going to get the proper fruit."
CHRIS VESTER
Do you have any other advice for people dealing with the loss of a spouse?
JEFF WENDT
Grief is a season, not a life sentence. Sometimes being a widow or widower becomes someone’s identity rather than something that identifies them. I am not a fan of the word widower because that’s not my identity, but it identified me. So, I attacked the grief because I didn’t want to live that way for the rest of my life. I wanted that to be a season of grief. If you're in that space right now, you can make a choice. You're not a victim, even though sometimes you might feel like you're one. You have a choice, whether you want it to be a season or a life sentence.
I don't mean to seem insensitive about that, because I will carry with me the loss of Tiffany for the rest of my life. Every day I see five faces that remind me of our life together and of who she was to me, but I have no power to go back and change that. If I don't have any power to go back and change it, I shouldn’t waste my time and energy. I never asked why because I knew I wouldn’t get an answer, and even if I did, I wouldn’t be satisfied. I used my time, effort, and energy to move through grief as quickly as possible in a healthy way. I didn’t bury it because when you bury things, they come out sideways and you bleed on people who didn’t cut you.
ALI WENDT
Jeff and I have talked about how transformative the past four years of our lives have been. I've gotten nearer to God in ways that I never would have before. I've come to a level of surrender and dependence that I never would have before without being forced to, through going through the trauma and the grief. I would have held on, or it would have taken years. Grief and tragedy in our lives can catapult us forward, toward God, and in a way that other emotions can’t. The Scripture tells us, "Count it all joy," which can be hard to understand, but we get it now by being on the other side of it. It’s not like we’ve moved on and we never feel that grief or sadness, but we're in a place where we can be thankful for what God has done in our hearts, in our lives, and the relationship and dependence we have on Him now.
Our lives aren’t ours anymore. We let go of that and realized it in a way you don't otherwise. We don’t hold onto everything tightly or try to control everything that happens. We’re here for God and want to make an impact on His Kingdom while we’re here.
JEFF WENDT
"I serve at the pleasure of the King,” this is what is most important.
ALI WENDT
That's the mindset and the heart we've developed through all of it. It's a great invitation and opportunity to draw near to Him in that way.