What is their no substance soul and Heaven? What could it be if it has no substance? God made all things out of nothing. If the soul has no substance, it is still nothing. Are they saying God made nothing out of nothing? And this God who made nothing out of nothing is Himself nothing.
“The best translation would be ‘the departed.’” Paul Haupt, “American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literature.”
HEAVEN IS A REAL PLACE
“For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us” (Hebrews 9:24; 8:5). The holy place made with hands was a real place that was a copy of the true holy place; a real place could not be a copy of something that did not exist, which was only a thought in the mind that has no subjects. Christ entered “INTO HEAVEN ITSELF.” If Christ and God were only thoughts with no subject, and Heaven was only something in their minds, it would mean a thought entered into the thoughts that were only in the mind of the thought. He makes this and many other passages be pure nonsense. “In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you” (John 14:2-3). Thoughts do not have a house with dwelling places; Christ went to prepare a place for “you” not for thoughts only. Heaven is a real place with real dwelling places for a real “you.” You cannot prepare a place in a place that is not a place.
NOTE: I have tried to give the views of the majority in each in the above Protestants versions of Hell. In each of them, there are many individuals and/or small groups who believe in a variation of that believed by the majority.
Summary: Protestants that believe in Hell are contradictory as to what and where Hell will be.
EIGHT OTHER VERSIONS OF HELL
(1) Church of Christ, Christian Church: The Abraham's bosom, or the after judgment Hell, A newer version of Hell: This version is based almost entirely on an interpretation of Luke 16:19-31 (see chapter eight, part one). Most members of the church of Christ, the Christian Church and some Protestants believe it although it is not generally accepted as being orthodox or traditional Protestant. In this version all who do not obey Christ will go to Hell, but not unto after the coming of Christ and the judgment; and no one goes to Heaven before the judgment (no instant rapture). According to this version, at death all are taken to an intermediate holding place where the lost are tormented, and the saved are rewarded in a place sometimes called "Abraham's bosom." Instead of all being in Heaven and Hell unto the second coming of Christ, all are either on the good or on the bad side of hades and Christ will take them out of hades at His coming, and judge them a second time to see whether He made a mistake the first time, and put them on the wrong side of hades. A baby who has not come to the age of accountability is not lost and will go to the good side of hades. After the judgment God will personally do the tormenting of all the lost for eternality, and Satan and his angels and all the lost will be tormented together.
This view has two places where God is going to torture the lost; (1) in one side of hades that is a temporary place of torture, and will last only unto the second coming of Christ, (2) and "Hell" which will be a permanent place where God will torture most of mankind without end. No one is now in Heaven or Hell and it will not be unto after the resurrection and judgment. This is the view was I taught from the time I became a Christian, and I believed it a long time. I have many books and tracts in which well-known preachers and teachers, such as H. Leo Boles, E. M. Zerr, B. W. Johnson, and many others who teach this view; but lately it seems to be dying out in the church, and is being replaced by going immediately to Heaven or Hell at death without the Resurrection or Judgment, particularly at funerals where preachers often say the dead person are now in Heaven. Most all think of and speak of their loved ones as now being in Heaven with Jesus, not in Abraham's bosom unto the judgment.
“When a ‘faithful’ member dies, he or she does not ‘go’ to heaven or hell. The person is not ‘sentenced’ by Christ to heaven or hell until ‘Judgment Day’…There will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous (Acts 24:15).” http://bible-the-real-world.awardspace.com/html/church_of_christ.html
(2) Edward Fudge version: The short Hell: He uses the name Hell as if it was a Bible name, but thinks it will last for only a limited time, and will end with the total destruction of those in it. He may have Hell and the wrath and fury of God at the judgment confused (1982 edition). Roger Dickson believes the duration of Hell will fit the crime, and then will end. It will be short for some, and longer for other. He says, "After the stripes have been given, then the destruction occurs, for which there is no reverse" page 162ff, "Life, Death And Beyond." Is he renaming the Judgment Day, and calling it "Hell?" If I understand him right, he thinks the lost will go to Hell, but the not so bad will not be tormented as long as the very bad. After the "punishment matches the crime" he says they will then be destroyed (page 163). (1) "Shall be beaten with many stripes" (Luke 12:47). This is used to prove there will be an end after the stripes. He seem to think, "Beaten with few stripes" could not be as long as "beaten with many stripes;" therefore, could not take forever; some would be tormented longer than others, but the torment will end with death for all. (2) This short Hell is different from the Church of God short Hell in that it will not be on this earth, and there will be no second chance, it will end with death from which there will be no resurrection.
F. LaGard Smith, a teacher of Bible at Lipscomb University in his book, “After Life, A Glimpse of Eternity Beyond Death’s Door,” also teachers there is a Hell, but Hell will end, no one will be tormented without end. He says on page 191 that sooner or later there is a point that the punishment in Hell will end.
This is a parable addressed to those of that day, not an actual event after the resurrection and Judgment Day of God beating with a whip (Luke 12:41; 12:49-53). In the Law of Moses God limited "many stripes" to 40 lashes, never more than 40 (Deuteronomy 25:3; Luke 12:47; Acts 16:23; 2 Corinthians 11:24). Yet, this "many stripes," which was no more then 40 is used by those that believe Hell is endless torment to prove that God will forever give not only the 40, but stripes without end, an uncountable number of stripes to those in Hell. In the parable in Luke 12:47-48 both the “beaten with few strips” and the “beaten with many stripes” are changed to “beaten with an endless uncountable number of blows given by God to a countless number at the same time He is burning them in the lake of fire; this change that puts the both the “few stripes” and the “many stripes” in Hell must be made to make the stripes go on being given by God for eternality and never stop, for if the “few stripes” were not an endless number and God ever stopped His beating, Hell would have ended. If there were a Hell that had no end, after the “few stripes” reached a number that no man could count the stripes would have just begin.
Death and only death is the wages of sin; there is no passage in the Bible that says anyone will be in “Hell” for a short time any more than there is one that says anyone will be in a “Hell” that has no end. The lake of fire is not a real literal lake of fire, it is a symbol picture of death, any living being cast into a lake of fire would be dead almost instantly. John clearly said the lake of fire “is the second death” (Revelation 20:8), not a short time for some but longer of others. Their punishment is not being tormented by God unto they have paid for their sins and then the torment will end; their punishment is an eternal punishment, an eternal death (Matthew 25:46). A place called “Hell” does not exist in the Bible, not a short Hell, or an eternal Hell.
All the details that make up any of the parables cannot be taken latterly. The point to them is that they all teach a lesson. The lesson to this one is that to whoever much is given much will be required, we are to use whatever ability we have whether much of little. More is required in this lifetime of the person that has much ability than of the person that has little ability, but even the person that has little ability must use what he or she has. Nothing is taught in this parable about any punishment after the judgment.
(3) Christadelphians version of Hell: Those who never heard the Gospel will never be raised. Death is the end of them. Only those who heard the Gospel will be raised at the second coming of Christ, and judged to see whether they were faithful. The faithful will have eternal life on Earth, which will be restored to be like Eden before Adam sinned. The unfaithful of those who heard the Gospel, and were raised will be annihilated by the second death.
(4) Church of God version of Hell (and others): Both Heaven and Hell will be on this earth. After the resurrection of earthly bodies on this restored earth, all will be given a second chance to accept Christ. Most will, but the few who will not accept Christ will suffer the second death. Their torment will end in death from which there will never be a resurrection. The saved will be raised and live on the earth restored to be the way it was before Adam sinned, with a body like Adam before he was put out of the garden. No one will ever be in Heaven. I have not been able to find how they think Adam's body was different before he was put out of the garden than it was after. Many Premillennialists who are in most Protestant churches believe this version of Hell or one that is very similar to it.
(5) Universalist version of Hell, The "age lasting" Hell: Hell will last for only an age; then all will be saved. Universalist calls it a time of "attitude adjustments," or "age-during correction." They do not see it as God torturing people in a literal lake or anything like that, they see it as simply as a time when God will be correcting or teaching them further unto they are fit for His kingdom. All, even the most evil, will eventually end up in Heaven.
(6) Seventh Day Advent version of Hell: They believe that at the second coming of Christ the unrighteous will be kill, the righteous will be taken back to Heaven for a 1,000 years. During the 1,000 years only Satan and his angels will inhabit the earth. At the end of the 1,000 years Christ will return to earth with the saved, and the unrighteous will be raised for judgment. Satan gathers his angels, and will the help of the resurrected unrighteous attempt to interfere with the judgment, they will be destroyed in a military battle that will take place outside of Jerusalem in the same way Sodom was turned into ashes, they will never be in Hell. The judgment and destruction of the lost will take place on this earth. Their Hell will be on this earth and will last only unto those in it are burned too ashes, the second death. The saved will live forever with earthly bodies on a restored earth on which there will be no evil. They believe they will live forever on all this earth, not just in Jerusalem, much as we now do, they will build houses, plant crops, and meet together each Sabbath Day. No one will be in Heaven after the 1,000 years.
Just as with the Church of God version of Hell, many Premillennialists who are in most Protestant churches also believe this version of Hell, or one that is very near the same. The number of those who are called Protestant but do not believe any of the orthodox Protestant versions of Hell is large and growing.
(7) Latter-day Saints version of Hell (Mormons): They believe there will be three Kingdoms, Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms. According to Mormons all spirit were once in Heaven, some spirits were judged worthily to come to earth where they will end up in three states of “glory.” The highest, the Celestial Kingdoms will always live on this earth with cities, houses, animals, can have children and all things much as we now have. The two lower Kingdoms, the Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms will not be on this earth, but they do not seem to know just where they will be, but they will not in Heaven from which they came; those in these two Kingdoms will not be allowed to have children. All will be raised from the dead except for the sons of perdition, the once faithful Mormons, but become apostates and left the Mormon Church; they do not yet have any revelation about what will be their fate other then they will have no glory. Those who are not Mormons can go no higher then the lower Telestial Kingdom, which seems to be a very low state of glory; they will not be able to be on this earth, not able to have children, and will not in Heaven from which they came.
The Latter-day Saints Millennium is unlike any other version of the Millennium. They have both mortals and resurrected immortality living together on earth having children, building houses, and doing the things that is normal now.
(8) The grave is Hell version (Jehovah’s Witnesses): The grave is Hell, and all go to it at death. There is no knowledge or torment in this Hell, just sleep or death. Some from many different groups believe this version of Hell. They get support mostly from the older translations like the King James Version, and most who believe it think the newer translations that translate only Gehenna into Hell are wrong. They believe Gehenna is a trash dump, not Hell. This Hell is going on now with all the dead in it, both the good and the bad are asleep in it, and it will wake up at the Resurrection. All are unconscious, and there is no torment of the wicked or reward of the righteous in "Hell" where all the dead, both the good and the bad now are. In this version, Hell will end at the resurrection, and there will be no Hell after the resurrection and judgment.
The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Hell is the “common grave of mankind” where all people go when they die and they are not conscious there. This version is nothing more than a renaming of sheol and hades.
A. B. Robinson, September 1996 (A Jehovah's Witnesses): "We do not have the word 'hell' in the NWT. We translate gehenna as gehenna, hades as hades and sheol as sheol. By doing this we can get the true import of these words. Gehenna is a garbage dump and sheol and hades often refer to the grave. We believe everyone who dies goes to 'hell' or sheol (hades). The dead are unconscious, asleep if you will (Ecc 9:5,19 and 1 Thes 4:13-16) and will remain such until they are resurrected. We also believe that 'hell' will be emptied, as is clearly stated in Rev 20:13. The persons who were in hell, both the righteous and the unrighteous (Acts 24:15) will be resurrected and judged. Those who are deserving of it will then be thrown into the lake of fire, the second death (Rev 20:14,15)."
Brian Holt in an e-mail to me said, "JW's do not have the word ‘hell’ in the NWT," then he said in the e-mail that everyone who dies goes to Hell. If Hell is not in their Bible, how do they know all the dead are now in Hell?
In today's English Hell has come to mean a place of eternal torment after death, and to translate hades into Hell is an untrue translation. The grave is Hell was not the intentions of the translators who first put the word "Hell" into the Bible, the grave is Hell is not the way it would have been understood by English speaking people when it was first used by the translators or the way it is understood today.
They believe that only 144,000 chosen people will ever enter Heaven and they will be changed to a spiritual body to live in Heaven where they will forever live and help Jesus govern the church that will forever be on this earth. At the end of the Millennium all that has not been make perfect during the Millennium, or did not just cease to exist at death will be destroyed in Gehenna. All but the 144,000 that have been made perfect will live forever on this restored earth.
“THAT IS WHAT JEHOVAH’S WITNESSSES TEACH”
I have been told that what I believe "is what Jehovah's Witnesses have been teaching for years." One person said to me, “You believe the same thing Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Why don't you join them and leave us alone?”
Clark Pinnock said, "It seems that a new criterion of truth has been discovered which says that if Adventists or liberals hold any view, that view must be wrong. Apparently a truth claim can be decided by its association and does not need to be tested by public criteria in open debate. Such an argument, though useless in intelligent discussion, can be effective with the ignorant who are fooled by such rhetoric.” Four Views on Hell, page 161.
The problem with this is (1) I do not believe as they do that the grave is Hell. (2) That most all denominations, whether they are occults, liberals, or whatever, teach many things that the Bible teaches, and many that the Bible does not teach. Nothing is right or wrong because a denomination teaches it, not even right or wrong if the Jehovah's Witnesses denomination teaches it. It is right if the Bible teaches it, or wrong if the Bible does not teach it. Catholic, Baptist, Jehovah's Witnesses, Church of God, and all others each teach many things that the Bible teaches, and each one teaches many things that the Bible does not teach. Anything is right if the Bible teaches it even if the Jehovah's Witnesses teach it, and wrong if the Bible does not teach it. Jehovah’s Witnesses teach adultery is a sin; is it wrong to teach that adultery is a sin because Jehovah’s Witnesses teach it to be? To say, "That is what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach," is said for the same reason the Baptist says, "That is water salvation" or "That is Campbellism." Their real problem is not that one of the occults teach it, but that they have no other answer, and know that they can turn many off just by saying, "That is what Jehovah's Witnesses teach," just as the Baptist did with, "That is water salvation." They could not show that a person can be saved without baptism; therefore, they would say, "You believe in water salvation" for they know this would make others prejudice and not believe the Bible. Now the same thing is being done to anyone who does not believe in Hell by saying, "You are nothing but a Jehovah's Witnesses," even though what I believe is far from what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach, they believe there is a Hell, but it is going on now, and I do not believe the Bible says anything about any kind of Hell; not one that is going on now, or one that will be at any time after death.
The Moslem religion believes in eternal torment; can we say it is wrong because those who believe in eternal torment believe something the Moslems teach? No, it is wrong because the Bible does not teach it.
Why? What is the real reason they say that is Jehovah's Witnesses teaching? I think one reason is that they just do not want to deal with it. Do not want to take the time. Another reason is the same reason the Baptist call us "Campbellism" and say, "You believe in water salvation." The truth is that if Jehovah's Witnesses did believe as I do (they do not, but even if they did) as long as the Bible teaches it, I would not care if it were what they believed, but would say that it is great that they believe the Bible on that point, and would wish that they believed the Bible on all points. If you made two lists, one a list of things any denomination believes that is not in the Bible, and a list of things it believes that is in the Bible, both lists would be long. The persons who say "That is Jehovah's Witnesses teaching" believes many of the same things that would be on the list of things the Jehovah's Witnesses believes.
Some of the many things Jehovah's Witnesses teach that I do not believe.
Unto the resurrection death is death, not any kind of life, or any kind of Hell anyplace.
If, "That is what Jehovah's Witnesses believes" makes anything wrong, it is such a broad argument that there is nothing in the Bible that is not destroyed by it, for there is no Bible teaching that is not believed by many false religions.
Probable origin of this version of Hell: Sheol is translated Hell in the King James Version thirty-one times, and grave thirty-one times. It puts all in Hell or the grave together, both the good and the bad, and the grave is a place that those in it know nothing where they will be only unto the resurrection. If one believes the mistranslation of the King James Version, then he or she must believe the grave is Hell version of Hell for it is clearly taught in the Old Testament of the King James Version. The Jehovah's Witnesses and others who believe this version have all the proof they need in the mistranslations in the King James Version even thought it was not the intention of the translators to teach a Hell with both the saved and lost in it with no pain that will end at the resurrection; I cannot see anyway that a person that believes the King James Version just as it is would not be forced believe in the same Hell that the Jehovah’s Witnesses believes in, their Hell is clearly taught in it.
THREE CATHOLIC VERSIONS OF HELL
(1) The Medieval Dark Age Medieval Catholic version of Hell: The soul being immortal came from Greek philosophy, and was brought into the church by some of the church fathers, by Augustine more then most others. The doctrine of Hell came soon after the immortal soul doctrine along with Purgatory, the sale of indulgences, Limbo, worship of Mary and saints, Nether World, Holy Water, the rosary, forbidding Priest to marry, the crucifix, Monks and Nuns, forbidding eating of meat on Friday, and many other teaching; and was fully developed by the Dark Age Catholic Church before the Protestant Reformation. I have found it difficult to pen down just what is the official teaching. It seems to be that in the past they believed that only a very few, the very bad, will go to Hell, which they believe is a real place, at their death with no judgment, but most Catholics will go to Purgatory at death. A few of the very good will go to Heaven at their death with no judgment (an instant rapture). At death most Catholic will go immediately to Purgatory, which seems to be a limited version of Hell, unto they have suffered enough to pay for their own sins, or unto their love ones have paid all they can, then they go to Heaven. How long a person will be in Purgatory is sometimes taught to be a short time, and sometimes a very long time to those who have no one to win indulgences for them. It has brought enormous wealth to the rich Catholic Church from the poor who paid what little they had, and even done without food to help a loved one. The Catholic Purgatory gives no hope for heathens, heretics, or those not baptized. The Catholic Doctrine of Purgatory (1) makes a few go to Heaven or Hell at death, (2) makes all other Catholics will get to Heaven as soon as they (not Christ) have suffered enough to pay for their own sins, (3) leaves no dead Christians that will not already be in Heaven to be resurrected at the second coming of Christ. They, not Christ, will have suffered unto they have paid in full for their own sins, or others have paid enough money to free them from Purgatory. An example of the Catholic teaching on the selling of indulgences that was common before the time of Martin Luther as given by John Tetzel, a Dominican monk who said as soon as the money is given, “The soul escapes from purgatory, and flies liberated to heaven,” and “The Lord no longer reigns…He has given all power to the pope.” As quoted by F. LaGard Smith of Lipscomb University in “After Life” pages 223-224.
S. M. Brown: “Medieval Europe,” pages 348-259, 1932. “Hell is wide without measure, and deep and bottomless; full of incomparable fire, for no earthly fire may be compared therewith; full of stench intolerable for no living thing on earth might endure it; full of unutterable sorrow for no mouth may, on account of the wretchedness or the woe thereof, give an account not tell of it. Yea, the darkness therein is so thick that one may grasp it, for the fire there gives no light, but blinds the eyes of them that are there with a smothering smoke, the worst of smokes. And nevertheless in that same black darkness they see black things as devils, that ever maul them and afflict and harass them with all kinds of tortures; and tailed drakes, horrible as devils, that devour them whole and spew them out afterwards before and behind. At other times they rent them in pieces and chew each gobbet of them, and they afterwards become whole again, such as they previously were, to under go again such bale with recovery, and full well they see themselves very horrible and dreadful; and to increase their pains the loathsome hell-worms, toads, and frogs that eat out their eyes and nostrils, and adders and water-frogs, not like those here, but hundred times more horrible, sneak in and out of the mouth, ears, eyes, navel ever yet thickest. There is shrieking in the flame and chattering of teeth in the snowy waters. Suddenly they flit upon the heat into the cold, nor ever do they know of there two which is worst for them, for each is intolerable…And this same wan hope is their greatest torment, that none have any hope of any recovery, but are sure of ever ill, to continue in woe, world without end, even in eternity. Each chokes the other, and each in another’s torment, and each hates another and him self as the black devil; and as they loved them the more in this world, so the more shall they hate them there. And each curses another, and gnaws off the other’s arms, ears, and nose also.” As quoted by Robert L. Whitelaw in ?