Soul or Spirit? Which One? by Bobby West - HTML preview

     Summary: If this spirit that returns to God were an immortal soul, it would undeniable be in conflict with the teaching of today's theology that lost souls go to Hell immediately at death, and not to Heaven. Why is this passage that says all spirits (ruach-breath of life) returns to God one of the most used passages to teach a person has an immortal soul that goes to either (1) Heaven (2) or Hell? Can you find anything about the spirit (ruach-breath of life) of anyone going to Hell in this passage? Maybe because there is no passage that really teaches it, changing spirit of both that came from and returns to God into a living, thinking, immortal soul is the best that can be found.

(8) THE SPIRIT OF MAN AND THE SPIRIT OF BEAST

Ecclesiastes 3:18-21

     “I said in my heart, it is because of the sons of men, that I may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts. For that which befalls the sons of men befalls beasts; even one thing befalls them: as the one dies so dies the other; yes, they have all one breath (Hebrew–ruach–spirit); and man has no preeminence above the beasts: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knows the spirit  (Hebrew–ruach) of man, whether it goes upward, and the spirit  (Hebrew–ruach) of beast, whether it goes downward to the earth.” Why was the same Hebrew word (ruach) translated “breath” when it has references to both man and beast; were they hiding the fact they both have the same “ruach” because they did not believe beast have the same spirit as man?

Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 King James Version:

“All (man and beasts) have the same BREATH (ruach).”

“Who knows that the SPIRIT (ruach-breath of life) of man.”

“That the SPIRIT (ruach-breath of life) of the beast.”

Psalm 104:29-30 King James Version:

“You take away their BREATH (ruach) they die.”

“You send forth your SPIRIT (ruach-breath) they are created.”

     Innate soul advocates would not give both man and beasts the same spirit (soul), neither could they have God taking away a soul.

     If this BREATH–SPIRIT (ruach) were an immortal soul that returns to God at death, then it is like Ecclesiastes 12:7 above in that it would prove ALL, both the good and the evil are saved, and both return to God at death. See notes above.

"They all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast."

1. Who knows whether (if) “the spirit (ruach) of man" goes up when the body returns to the dust?
2. Who knows whether (if) “the spirit (ruach) of beast" goes down when the body returns to the dust?

 “Who know that the breath (ruach) of man ascends upward and the breath (ruach) of the beast descends downward to the earth? (Ecclesiastes 3:21 New American Standard Version). Solomon is asking a question, to which he gives no answer, but his question is turned into statement of fact when it is used to prove that man has a spirit (ruach) in him that is immortal, but the same spirit (ruach) in a beast is mortal. WHEN HIS QUESTION IS CHANGED INTO A STATEMENT THAT SAYS SOLOMON KNEW MANKIND HAS IMMORTAL SOULS, AND BEASTS DO NOT, IT MAKES A LIE OUT OF HIS STATEMENT THAT “THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE FOR MAN OVER BEAST,” THERE WOULD BE A VERT BIG ADVANTAGE.

     There is an old saying, "That which proves to much proves nothing." The spirit of a person going up after his death is used to prove a person has a soul that does not die when his body dies; therefore, this soul is immortal, then the beast having a spirit that goes down after its death would prove that the beast has a soul just as immortal as a person's soul, and that it does not die when the body of the beast dies; therefore, its soul is immortal. The "spirit (ruach) of a beast," and the "spirit (ruach) of a man" are in the same sentence, and both times “spirit” is from the same Hebrew word, there is no way to make one "spirit" be an immortal something that cannot die, and the other "spirit" be only the life of the body that is not immortal. If a beast has a soul or a spirit (Hebrew—ruach, the same soul—ruach persons have) that separates from its body and goes anywhere after the death of the person or beast, if it goes up or if it goes down, then the ruach of beast would be just as alive after the ruach of the beast separated from the body of the beach as the ruach of a person would be after the ruach separated from the body of the person. If the spirit (ruach) going up proves it is immortal and cannot die, then the spirit (ruach) going down would prove that it is immortal and cannot die.

     Ruach is translate 16 different ways, most often as breath and wind, and is used to describe all earthly living beings. All flesh, birds, cattle, beasts, and every creeping thing, all have the same spirit (ruach) as man (Genesis 7:22; Genesis 6:17; Ecclesiastes 3:19).

     This is a question that Solomon asked, but he did not give an answer. Yet, many give their own answer and say, “Yes I know where a soul of man goes, it returns to God all the way up to Heaven,” and then use their uninspired answer to prove that Solomon said a person has an immortal soul that is alive and goes up to God in Heaven after the death of and without the person, or a soul that is alive and goes down to Hell after the death of the person. That the lost are transported directly down to Hell at death much be added, for if not, they have made this passage teach all will be saved at death, and that before and without the death of Christ. But was Solomon asking whether anyone knows that the dead go to Heaven? In the time of Solomon the Pagans that were all around Israel believed in reincarnation; the resurrection and life after death was not known about in the Old Testament, “Our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Timothy 1:10), both life and immortality were brought to light by Christ, both were not known about before Christ. With the revelation that Solomon had, with all that had been made known at that time he could see nothing after death for man or beast. All the blessings of the Law were in their lifetime, not after death (Deuteronomy 28:11). Not one word about a blessing after death (see chapter seven–“A strange and unexplainable silence of the Old Testament on punishment and life after death” and (6) above); having no revelation about a resurrection after death Solomon saw the same fate for both, and saw no pre-eminence of one over the other after death, they both die. Without knowing of a resurrection after death, he could not see any life for either one. See Psalm 115:17; 6:5; 146:4-5; Ecclesiastes 9:5; Job 14:21. “As it is with the good man, so with the sinner…the same destiny overtakes all…for the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing” (Ecclesiastes 9:2-5 New International Version). Without the resurrection to immortality, which was not make known at that time (2 Timothy 1:10; 1 Corinthians 15:18) all blessing and all cursing would be in this life-time, no blessing or cursing after death (Deuteronomy 28:1-68).

     Reincarnation, that all living being, both men and animals, have a soul that come back as a higher or lower life was taught by the Pagans that was all around Israel at that time. He was asking a question of someone. His question might have been to the Pagans asking them how did they know about reincarnation, how did they know a spirit or soul of a person or beast goes anywhere after death and is reincarnated. According to Pagan teaching that all, both persons and beasts do have an immortal soul, and they believe this soul goes somewhere after death. He asked how or by what authority do you know this; how did they know some are reincarnated down to a lower life and some up to a higher life? The only answer would be they did not know; there was no revelation from God, no way to know about reincarnation but human reasoning.

     Unconditional immortality must change what Solomon said, "For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath (ruach) and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. All go to the same place, All come from the dust and all return to the dust. (After clearly saying man and beast go to the same place, he is made to say in the next sentence that they do not go to the same place). Who knows that the breath (ruach) of man ascends upward and the breath (ruach) of beast descends downward to the earth?" His question must be changed into a statement of fact that would make it be a direct contradiction of what he had just said for it to teach today's theology. Solomon says the living knows something, but the dead do not know anything. (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

o The “living” person knows.

o The “dead” person does not know.

o It is the person that knows or does not know, not a soul that is in the living person but has left the dead person.

He did not say, "Dead bodies do not know anything." There is no way anyone can say the dead know anything unless they say Solomon did not tell the truth, for if the dead go immediately to Heaven or Hell at death, they do know something. How could they be in torment in Hell if those in Hell do not know anything?

     This is spoken of all men, not just the good ones. If it is an immortal spirit going to Heaven, then both the good and the bad go to Heaven at death, and this was before the death of Christ. If all were going to Heaven ("up" which they say is back to God in Heaven) at death before and without the death of Christ, before anyone had ascended to Heaven, why did Christ die? Has not the death of Christ been made useless?

    In “Life and Death,” Campbell argued that spirits, whether it be spirits of angles or spirits of men, cannot die just because they are spirits, is there anyway that his argument would not prove that the spirits of beast cannot die just because they are spirits? But he is changing the spirit (ruach) into an immortal, deathless soul that has it own life that is separate from the life of men or beast, with the spirit (ruach) of beast being mortal, and the spirit (ruach) of man being immortal, even when the same word in the Hebrew is used in the same passage; by what revelation can anyone know that one spirit (ruach) is immortal, and the other spirit (ruach) is mortal?

 (9) LIFE DEPARTING AND RETURNING 1 Kings 17:2

     "Then he stretched himself upon the child three times, and called to the Lord, and said, 'O Lord my God, I pray Thee, let this child's life (nehphesh) return to him.'" (1 Kings 17:21 New American Standard Version). The same Hebrew word is used in Genesis 1:30. "And to everything that creeps upon the earth, wherein there is life (nehphesh)." Nehphesh is translated "life" or "lives" 108 times in the King James Version. A person having an immortal something, whatever that something is believed to be, that is not subject to death is not in this passage. Since the child later died again after his resurrection, he was still mortal after this resurrection, just as mortal as before.

1. The earthly life that left the body.
2. It is the same earthly life that returned to the body.
3. It is the same earthly life that left the body when the child died a second time of old age.

     When the bodily life is restored only to die again, how could this prove an immortal soul left the body and returned? The life that left the body and was restored must be changed to the spirit left the body and returned.

Passages that speak of life departing and returning to the body

1 Kings 17:21 This is frequently used to prove that an immortal soul had left the child, and was in Heaven even though nothing is stated nor implies about either an immortal soul, nor about him being in Heaven; both are added to it.

o "And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the Lord, and said, O Lord my God, I pray thee, let the child's soul (life-nehphesh) come into him again. And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul (life-nehphesh) of the child came into him again, and he revived," King James Version.

o "Then he stretched himself upon the child three times, and called to the Lord, and said, 'O Lord my God, I pray Thee, let this child's life (nehphesh) return to him,' And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah, and the life (nehphesh) of the child returned to him and he revived," New American Standard Bible.

o "Then he stretched himself out on the body three times and cried to the Lord, 'O Lord my God, let this boy's life (nehphesh) return to him!' The Lord heard Elijah's cry, and the boy's life (nehphesh) returned to him and he lived," New International Version.

o "He called out to the Lord: 'O Lord, my God, will you afflict even the widow with whom I am staying by killing her son?' Then he stretched himself out upon the child three times and called out to the Lord: 'O Lord, my God, let the life breath (nehphesh) return to the body of this child.' The Lord heard the prayer of Elijah; the life breath (nehphesh) returned to the child's body and he revived," The New American Bible. (Note: “breath” was added, it is not in the Hebrew).

o “O Lord my God, let the breath of life (nehphesh), I pray, return to the body of this child. The Lord listened to Elijah’s cry, and the breath of life (nehphesh) returned to the child’s body and he revived,” The New English Bible. (Note: “breath” was added, it is not in the Hebrew).

Genesis 35:18

o "And it came to pass as her soul (life-nehphesh) was in departing (for she died)," King James Version.

o "As she breathed her last (nehphesh) - for she was dying," New International Version.

o "Then with her last breath (nehphesh), as she was dying," Revised English Bible.

o "As she lay dying (nehphesh), she named the boy," New Century Version.

o "Rachel was about to die, but with her last breath (nehphesh) she named him Bensni," New Living Bible.

o "With her last breath (nehphesh)...for she was at the point of death," The New American Bible.

     An immortal undying part of a person can be read into this only by applying today's meaning of the English word "soul" to the Hebrew word "nehphesh" See Acts 20:9-10. It was "life" that departed, not some inter immortal something that some believe to be in a person and it cannot die, but it departed from the person it was in and went to Heaven or Hell before and without the Judgment, but this soul or this spirit left Heaven or Hell and retuned back to the person it had been in. Psalm 104:29-30 "You take away their spirit (ruach–sea creature and animals–see verses 24-25), they expire, and return to their dust. You send forth Your spirit (ruach–sea creature and animals) they are created." When the life (ruach) of beasts and creeping things depart (Genesis 9:5), no one believes it is an immortal soul departing for someplace without the animal or creature that it was in.

GIVING UP THE GHOST IN THE KING JAMES VERSON

      “Gahvag” is used 23 times in the Hebrew Old Testament. It is translated die or died 12 times, “gave up the ghost” 9 times, perished 2 times.

     In 14 times of the 23 it as the person that died or perished, in the other 9 times it is a ghost that was leaving the person it had been in. The person dying was changed to a living ghost departing from a person. One Hebrew word was changed to four English words, changed from dying to departing.

     Genesis 25:28: The King James Version was made when they were coming out of the Dark Age and it seems as if the translators still had many of the Dark Age beliefs that they wanted to put into the Bible; beliefs that the translators of later translations did not have.

o “Then Abraham give up the ghost” King James Version.

o “Abraham breathed his last and died” New American Standard Bible, New Revised Standard Version, New International Version.

o “He died at a great age” Revised English Bible.

o “Then he breathed his last, dying at a ripe old age” New American Bible, (Catholic).

In the New Testament, King James Version:

o “Ekpneo” is translated “give up the ghost” three times, Mark 15:37; 15:39; Luke 23:46.

o “Ekpsuhe” two times “give up the ghost,” Acts 5:5; Acts 12:23. One time “yielded up the ghost,” Acts 5:10.

     The same as the Old Testament, they translated one word into four words to put the ghost they believed in into the Bible, but most newer translations translated it as “dead” or “breathed his last.” There is no such thing as a ghost of a person and the ghost of the King James Version has been removed by most translations.

Ekpneo in the New International Version:

o “Jesus breathed his last” (Ekpneo – one word into three words) Mark 15:37.

o “He died” (Ekpneo) Mark 15:39.

o “He breathed his last” (Ekpneo – one word into three words) Luke 23:46.

Ekpsuhe in the New International Version:

o “When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died” (Ekpsuhe) Acts 5:10

o “At that moment she fell down at his feet and died” (Ekpsuhe) Acts 5:10.

o “Was eaten by worms and died”(Ekpsuhe) Acts 12:23.

(10) GATHERED TO HIS PEOPLE Genesis 25:8-9

See chapter three.

(11) DAVID'S SON 2 Samuel 12:23

     "I shall go to him, but he will not return to me" 2 Samuel 12:23. How and where did David think he would go to where his son was? See (10) above. Many years after David's death, Peter said David has not gone to Heaven (Acts 2:29).

(12) SAMUEL OR A DEMON 1 Samuel 28:7-28

     From the days of the "church fathers" it has been debated whether this was Samuel or a demon. Those who believe in an immortal "immaterial, invisible part of man" say this was Samuel to prove all are living after death. If it were Samuel, then it proves he was down in the earth, in the ground (in sheol–the grave). Whether it was Samuel, or a demon, he "came up out of the earth Saul did not believe today's theology that the dead are in Heaven; he believed they are in the grave. He asked the women to "bring up" Samuel, not "bring down" Samuel. The woman saw something "coming up out of the earth,"

o "And bring up for me whom I shall name to you" (1 Samuel 28:8).

o "Whom shall I bring up for you?" (1 Samuel 28:11).

o "I see a divine being coming up out of the earth" (1 Samuel 28:13). Saul did not see anyone.

o "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" (1 Samuel 28:15).

     If this was Samuel he was not in Heaven. Those who believe that all have an immortal soul that goes to Heaven or Hell at death have no choice but to say (1) that Samuel was not in Heaven, Hell, or Abraham’s bosom, (2) or that this was not Samuel that came up out of the earth.

     If Samuel was in Heaven, could a medium bring him down out of Heaven, or could a medium bring him over the “great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and none may cross over from hence to us” (Luke 16:26)?

     If Samuel was in Heaven, do you think Saul would be with him the next day?

WHAT IS A “FAMILIAR SPIRIT”?

     “Familiar spirit” does not come from ruach or nehphesh. The two words comes from one Hebrew word, “ohv,” and it is used 16 times in the Old Testament and translated into two words, “familiar spirits” in all but one where “ohv” is translated, “burst like new bottles” (Job 32:29). It is never used of a person’s soul or person’s spirit; ohv is not the spirit (ruach) that returns to God at death (Ecclesiastes 3:21); even though the translators translate both Hebrew words into “spirit” they are nothing alike; Hebrew readers would know that two completely different words are used, but the translators did not let there English reader see this.

STRONG’S WORD 178, “A mumble, i. e. a water-skin (from its hollow sound); hence a necromancer (ventriloquist, as from a jar):--bottle, familiar spirits.”

     Familiar spirits are spirits of devils (See Numbers 25:13). They are just as real as Satan. It shows us that Satan has been successful in making his lie, "You shall not die" be believed, and even today Satan is using demons to promote his lie by passing themselves off as the spirit of a dead loved one to convince some that their loved ones are now alive, and that they have an immortal soul that is alive before the resurrection. By believing his lie, “You shall not die” is the truth then you have choosing Satan over God. There are so few passages that can be use to teach we have an immortal "immaterial, invisible part of man" that some are willing to use it despite the problems it creates for them. “So Saul died for his trespass which he committed against the Lord, because of the word of the Lord which he did not keep; and also because he asked counsel of a medium, making inquiry of it, and did not inquire of the Lord. Therefore He killed him, and turned the kingdom to David the son of Jesse” (1 Chronicles 10:13-14).

     This being did not come from Heaven or Hell, but “up out of the earth.” An immortal "immaterial, invisible part of man" being in the earth is not what is believe by many today, and this woman would not have been able to see the invisible spirit that a soul is believed to be by many that believe there is now an immortal soul that is in a person. If it were Samuel, instead of proving he was alive, it proves he was dead and in the grave; to bring one back from the dead is a resurrection of the dead, if not, why not? If it were Samuel, it would have been as all the other temporary resurrections of the Bible. Lazarus and other temporary resurrections lived a normal human life, and died as all others do; they were not raised immortal; they were raised still in the image of Adam, not with the spiritual body in the image of Christ. If this were a resurrection of Samuel, then Samuel knew that he would be back in the grave the next day; therefore, he was not raised immortal. How can this be used to prove a person now has a something in them that is believed to be an invisible immortal soul that Saul could not see, but the woman could see? Neither a temporary resurrection of Samuel from the grave, or an evil spirit impersonating Samuel would tell us (1) nothing of life after death, (2) or that a person now has an immortal "immaterial, invisible part."

     God had refused to answer Saul by any of the ways He spoke to man at that time, He did not answer by prophets, by dreams, and not by Urim and Thummim (1 Samuel 28:6). Then why would He answer by a way that He had forbidden Saul or anyone to use?

     If this were Samuel, it would be a contradiction to today's theology of the saved going to Heaven at death for Samuel would be up in Heaven, and he would be in Heaven both (1) without the death of Christ, (2) and without the resurrection, not down in the grave (sheol–hades) unto the resurrection of the dead. It must first be assumed (1) that there is a part of a person that is now immortal and cannot die, (2) then assumed that a person using witchcraft can call a “soul” out of Heaven which is where those who believe that this was a soul that had been in Samuel believed this soul would have been, for they believe that souls that had been in the saved go to Heaven at the moment of death, (3) then assumed that an “immaterial, invisible part of man (soul)” can be seen, but only by the person using witchcraft, not by Saul. Would not this make Satan and those who practice witchcraft have the power to actually reach into Heaven and remove a “soul” from the very presents of God?