Platos Gorgias
CALLICLES: Certainly I was.
like health and disease, they exclude one another; a man cannot have them both, or be without them both, at the SOCRATES: And would you say that pleasure and knowl-same time?
edge are the same, or not the same?
CALLICLES: What do you mean?
CALLICLES: Not the same, O man of wisdom.
SOCRATES: Take the case of any bodily affection:a man SOCRATES: And would you say that courage differed from may have the complaint in his eyes which is called oph-pleasure?
thalmia?
CALLICLES: Certainly.
CALLICLES: To be sure.
SOCRATES: Well, then, let us remember that Callicles, SOCRATES: But he surely cannot have the same eyes well the Acharnian, says that pleasure and good are the same; and sound at the same time?
but that knowledge and courage are not the same, either with one another, or with the good.
CALLICLES: Certainly not.
CALLICLES: And what does our friend Socrates, of SOCRATES: And when he has got rid of his ophthalmia, Foxton, saydoes he assent to this, or not?
has he got rid of the health of his eyes too? Is the final result, that he gets rid of them both together?
SOCRATES: He does not assent; neither will Callicles, when he sees himself truly. You will admit, I suppose, that CALLICLES: Certainly not.
good and evil fortune are opposed to each other?
SOCRATES: That would surely be marvellous and absurd?
CALLICLES: Yes.
CALLICLES: Very.
SOCRATES: And if they are opposed to each other, then, 116
Platos Gorgias
SOCRATES: I suppose that he is affected by them, and SOCRATES: Go back now to our former admissions.
gets rid of them in turns?
Did you say that to hunger, I mean the mere state of hunger, was pleasant or painful?
CALLICLES: Yes.
CALLICLES: I said painful, but that to eat when you are SOCRATES: And he may have strength and weakness in hungry is pleasant.
the same way, by fits?
SOCRATES: I know; but still the actual hunger is painful: CALLICLES: Yes.
am I not right?
SOCRATES: Or swiftness and slowness?
CALLICLES: Yes.
CALLICLES: Certainly.
SOCRATES: And thirst, too, is painful?
SOCRATES: And does he have and not have good and CALLICLES: Yes, very.
happiness, and their opposites, evil and misery, in a similar alternation? (Compare Republic.) SOCRATES: Need I adduce any more instances, or would you agree that all wants or desires are painful?
CALLICLES: Certainly he has.
CALLICLES: I agree, and therefore you need not adduce SOCRATES: If then there be anything which a man has any more instances.
and has not at the same time, clearly that cannot be good and evildo we agree? Please not to answer without con-SOCRATES: Very good. And you would admit that to sideration.
drink, when you are thirsty, is pleasant?
CALLICLES: I entirely agree.
CALLICLES: Yes.