Reclaiming Sanity:
Understanding, Coping, Boundaries
"'There MUST be something good and worthy under the hideous façade.'
'NO ONE can be that evil and destructive.'
'He must have meant it differently.'
This is magical thinking. Gullibility, selective blindness, malignant optimism - these are the weapons of the beast. And the abused are hard at work to provide it with its arsenal."
Article: The Malignant Optimism of the Abused by Dr. Sam Vaknin http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/npd/68862
"Of course he wants you to believe that his reason for leaving is YOUR FAULT… this is all part of the disorder right. Don't buy into this. Be real with yourself… and your memories. You know deep down that you tried your best with this disordered person… but it was a NO WIN situation. Always keep real with yourself and what you have learned about the disorder… don't let your mind play head games with you."
"Realization of what he really is will take time to soak in… but you will feel better in time. Think back on a time in your life where you were completely shattered about something and thought that you would never recover… AND YOU DID. Just as you will with this. Please reach out to us anytime… this place, these kind, understanding people helped me every step of the way."
"When you find yourself romanticizing him, read Sam Vaknin's FAQs. They will keep you grounded. And when you feel like venting, or raging post here!"
"Please give up trying to figure out why he says what he says… does what he does. It's truly a pointless pursuit and it offers little comfort in the end."
"The hardest thing is saying to yourself: 'I cannot go back THERE… so I must move forward.' Maybe it was familiarity that kept us there… but fear is my biggest hang-up. Fear of the unknown! I guess we traded a few moments of happiness with them when actually it was hell on earth!"
"She actually never had emotions for me nor does she harbour guilt over what she's done. I mean, I just can't fathom that. She said so many beautiful things to me! The reality that all that may have been a crock, is overwhelmingly inconceivable."
"It's hard not to think what they're doing now and who they're doing it with. I have to stop myself and remind myself if I were with him right now he would be making me clinch with some nasty negative remark or subtly insulting me or something that made my gut draw up!"
"When I'm tempted to respond to him, as I am now, I read here and post here. It's a good reality check. We can so easily forget the harm they do."
"It was then I realized I was still hanging on… like I was addicted to the N. I want to be free and away from it all. I want my mind to be free of the N infection."
"This reconciliation between the N and myself was short-lived. His true colours emerged, once again. But being able to document my every-day experience with him helped me to make the final decision to move on. I know that I'm far from recovering, and who knows I may make that mistake by N-dipping one more time, but if my experiences serve to help anyone else on this board, then I feel like I have at least accomplished something."
"I'm learning to take things one day at a time. If I N-dip, I just get back up, dust myself off and try again."
"I wanted to talk to ex-N so much today. Yet the desire to N-dip made me very anxious. It's as though my need for him, for someone so very bad for me, is finally becoming ego-dystonic. The urge to be with him creates strong inner dissonance because I know if I contact him it's emotional suicide. Still, I am in so much pain. I can hardly work. My job seems overwhelming."
"People on the site call it 'N-Dipping'. It is like fighting an addiction. So, if you are tempted to slide, it's entirely understandable. At one time you felt great love and passion for this man, and there is some part of you that WISHES he wasn't what you know him to be, WISHES it wasn't all true, that it didn't happen the way it did, and that you could GET BACK that guy you thought he was. I was always tempted to think maybe this is some sort of aberration, something going on in his life, stress, mental illness, and that the OTHER GUY, the one I fell in love with was the REAL HIM. I hated having to finally face the fact that I fell in love with a Jekyll and Hyde facade. It absolutely sucks."
"N-dipping is not sinful it just doesn't go anywhere… except as NS. It is also very painful to let go of all the hopes and dreams. I'm glad you have reached out here… as support is absolutely a necessary part of your (and our) recovery."
"For what it's worth, I did my N-dipping BEFORE I even knew what NPD was. I had a death wish for many years because I was in so much emotional pain. I lived like that for about 20 years. I got to the point where I could hardly function at all. Everything I did, was by rote. Now that I have the information about NPD, it is much easier to stay away from my N husband, emotionally. I still have times when I get depressed and unsure about everything, but those times are less and less."
"They just don't change and the games become more cruel. The devaluation becomes worse and more painful every time we go back. That's why I think some people think N-dipping is healing in a way, because you see the patterns repeating themselves. It won't be too long before you are able to detach from him emotionally and one day you will look at his antics and thank God you are no longer one of his victims."
"You can be certain that the winner in the end will be you, with your mind and soul intact. You have pinpointed the heart of the matter. You can love, will always be able to love. He can't, and never will. He is an emotional cripple who cannot even love himself. You will move forward in life, but he will remain, always, in the shadow-lands of his disorder."
"Then you get to the point where you could give a rat's ass about what other people think about you, because you know you're fine, just fine!"
"I am so lucky that I have absolutely no sentiment towards my ex-N left. The only emotion I have is fear and justifiably so."
"My pain over ex-N has been replaced with disdain. I hope this feeling hangs on. I never thought it would even come. After 30 years of being together, I thought that was all there was for me. Life is so much better now. All I needed was a little distance so I could get some perspective."
"The thing with us is we see good in other people and dismiss the bad. Like you I always go out of my way to help people and I get used… 'sucker' on my forehead is a good way of saying it. I am a magnet for these people."
"I don't mind feeling depressed, I know this is somehow necessary before the healing. But it feels like my life is going up and down from day to day. I feel so helpless in the a.m. and so determined hours later only to feel exhausted by the next day."
"No one ever builds true happiness at the expense of someone else."
"It's a multi-layered illness to be in a relationship with an N. In recovery the first detachment is letting go of the N and the next is letting go of one's mirage-like illusions about the N, and the next is healing one's own relationship with one's true self, and the next is learning to connect in a healthy way with others who can share a MUTUAL relationship…"
"It is difficult and sad for mothers to deal with a non-loving child, whether the child has a personality disorder or not. But if they are NPD and we find out more about this disorder, it is natural to wonder, 'what part did I play in this?'"
"I was sitting here wondering why I can't mentally rid myself of my own creep. He's not even a part of my life anymore. I don't see him, hear from him, talk or communicate with him… but he's inside my head and driving me crazy. He goes everywhere with me. He's a leech, a soul-sucker. I want rid of his presence, rid of his power, rid of his control over my mind. But yet I let him hang on inside my head sapping at the good person I used to be."
"I'm alone, but not lonely. I'm not elated, but I'm not sad - I'm not mad but I am disappointed… but it's my time to learn, we never learn anything when the road is smooth. We learn survival when we are taxed, and the road is lumpy. RIGHT?"
"Extreme highs and lows (which is what life in the shadow of the N is about) are not healthy. Such extremes are exhausting, as you second-guess what is going to be the next high or low. And, the lows sure do get lower, and the rages increase, and the devaluation sets in like a rot."
"As per the men, I don't get close to them as of yet, even though I crave the affection I lacked for four years. I would like to be touched and loved but even thinking about doing such with a normal man seems unreal. I think to myself 'what if I can't enjoy his closeness?' and 'what if I won't feel anything?' These are the thoughts I have."
"At the time I thought I'd never be strong again, but in retrospect I would have to say it as better to have loved and LEARNED than to have not loved at all. Because now I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I will never allow anyone to treat me that way again."
"Remember, no matter what's going on in your life, it's YOUR responsibility to choose how you will respond. It doesn't mean you won't hurt or be angry. It doesn't mean you should ignore what you're feeling either. Not being a victim and taking responsibility means feel the pain, acknowledge the shock, be mad, pissed off, etc., while looking for the LESSON. Keep on going in a way that honours you and who you really are."
"And, of course, after all the words from him telling me how much he didn't want me around any more, how he needed a change etc., he wouldn't leave or start the proceedings. I had to do all that. Part of his illogical 'rules'. Mostly, I don't believe he thought I would ever go."
"Leaving finally took every bit of strength I had left, especially when I find myself with very little money and starting a career at a time when I should be having the time of my life. I looked forward to this part of my life for a long time! Silly of me. I really should have known better."
"If more people had 1/100 the compassion, insight, and decency of people on this board (or if Ns had 1/100 the compassion, insight, and decency of most people), this world would be so much better."
"Trying to apply normal human qualities to an N is impossible. He's like a 5 year-old who got a new toy. Does he care anything about the old one? Of course not. You not only have the hurt of getting dumped by the N, but the realization that he is an N. That's a double whammy in anybody's book."
"If you were given a textbook on Ns and told to study them, with no knowledge of the actual person you would have one heck of a time trying to figure them out. Getting stung by one and then trying to figure yourself and them out too is where we're all at here. Go ahead, cry anywhere, anytime. I could hug you because you have normal emotions."
"I've lived with mine for 37 years. I'm in the process of breaking away and getting a divorce. But, believe me, he has done serious emotional damage to me. I too, am in therapy and currently exploring the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder concerning myself. You ended up staying in this mess because you thought that somehow you could make it better… but there is no better. When we finally come to THAT realization is when we start picking up the pieces of ourselves to get on with life."
"Reading Sam Vaknin's FAQs is like a roadmap of my experiences with N parents. It serves as constant reminders to us that the Ns have the problem!"
"…in every tear is a seed of healing."
"Today I did two things for myself. The first was to have lunch with a girlfriend. It was very uplifting. I kept thinking that I was glad I was no longer with N. The second was to spend two hours out at the river. It was wonderful."
"He was like a ball and chain around my neck. All Ns are. Every day I pray to God to give me strength and help me deal with this. The key is, I don't want it anymore. I really don't. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't truly care for me and love me the way I want and deserve to be. I'm so tired of thinking of him and his supposed emotional barriers and childhood traumas. Yes it's sad, but I shouldn't suffer because of it."
"Many years ago, a marriage counsellor told me that you simply cannot give to others if you aren't getting something back yourself. Those who give you positive feedback help, I know, but they can't be enough. Part of the reason your depression is so severe is that you are giving away more than you are receiving in return. You need to correct that. You need to be sensitive to draining situations and draining people, then you have to avoid them. Yes, you will feel guilty at first, but you will learn to be able see things in ways that are friendlier and more supportive of yourself."
"Remember most people in this world are here to help each other. But you must first come back to this world for others to help you. Just throw yourself out to the real world and leave the Narcissist behind. People will catch you and help you. First you have to know that people in this world are not here to get you – they are with you. You must first help yourself back to this world, to the point where others can start helping you. Remember: 'A loving heart is the truest wisdom.'"
"Some days will seem OK, then others you'll feel lower than low. That's to be expected. Just remember that he's the defective one, not you. It's difficult to digest that a person can be so mean and shallow on the inside when they can 'appear' to be so wonderful on the outside. You're not alone, and you're definitely not to blame for his behaviour. He'll do it to everybody who crosses his path."
"The learning from experience part of life is the hardest, but I believe it means the most. You have learned that people like him don't change themselves inside, just the scenery outside. Very shallow existence indeed."
"It is not unusual to have anxiety and panic attacks in the wake of the N-experience. It is in fact, quite normal, and they can last for many months afterwards."
"Final closure for me is the fact that HE IS WHAT HE IS. The carousel continues to turn for the narcissist but not for me… any longer."
"Another thing that helped me through the post N experience, which I still feel I'm in just further along the path, is to REMEMBER it's the beautiful, wonderful, lovely, top-notch qualities about you that attracted him in the first place."
"Every time I go into this obsessive mess I remind myself of a quote I recently read: 'You know it is real love when a person touches your life in a way (better) that you want to be a better person, and your life will never be the same after they touched yours.' They leave a mark of goodness, kindness, gentleness… (the fruits of the spirit). Does any N do that? NO!!! They touch our lives, but it's with such destruction and torture… it was never love! I believe their mental torture is knowing they had a good person and blew it! Therefore, they move on for new supply. Let it go! It is now someone else's pain and suffering. You deserve better!"
"We need to recognize that we must CELEBRATE our increasing feistiness, our stiffer backbone, our thicker skin, our stronger boundaries, and our ability to lay aside, with lessening amounts of distress and guilt, the desire to fix, to 'be there', for yet another wounded soul. When we understand what healing is all about, when we understand that healing ourselves is the only way to attract healthy personalities, when we understand that healing ourselves is the only way to become attracted to healthy personalities, then we will heal."
"Can I urge those of you still in the throes of the immediate aftermath of the N experience to care for yourselves physically, to try (yes, I know it is so very, very hard) not to 'introspect' too much, and to reach out to others. You will be surprised at the degree of help available in unexpected quarters. Do something peculiar, different, totally out of character, in the line of a pursuit or hobby. The concentration required will fill your mind, and any device is valid that will take your mind off what has happened."
"I believe it is possible to forgive, genuinely forgive in one's heart and soul, and yet not put oneself in danger or refuse to hold someone accountable for their actions."
"You know in your heart and that ache in your gut! You just dread taking that step. And yes, he will try to charm you again until he knows he's lost and he'll move on."
"I have learned lots of stuff about myself that I never before had to bother looking at. There IS a reason you are so attached and fell hard for this type. Finding that reason doesn't make the sorrow completely go away, but it does help to make sense of things."
"N boyfriend to distraught girlfriend over his emotional and physical withdrawal: 'You could have everything you wanted if you would just…' The ending always changes arbitrarily so as the girlfriend could never get it right to 'get what she wanted' which was physical and emotional closeness."
"I still get stuck wanting what I can't have, a healthy, loving, honest, open relationship with a person who only mimicked these things and then left me holding the bag."
"I can only say to those with doubts, with ideas of 'fixing it' - just don't. Move away and try to cut your losses. Why sit down to the table again to be dealt another bum hand?"
"Then, fool that I was, tried to become a crusading Pollyanna, armed with books, clinical data, case histories – I valiantly tried to cure him. Sam Vaknin calls it magical thinking and he's so right. I gave up. It's useless and a total waste of my time when I needed to concentrate on getting me better and getting on with my life."
"I have been with my N for 11 years and was completely disillusioned by him. I did everything I could to make things work and tried fixing the unfixable. He exploited me and other women for years. I'm done with him and have decided that I'm going to move forward with my life."
"If I absolutely WANT to stop the N, I have hundreds of ways, but if I, in the back of my head, continue playing his game, it means that I'm still denying his disease and still trying to control or heal it… I thought of the 3 'C's: I don't Cause it, I can't Control it and I can't Cure it…"
"I don't want to accept that the N can NOT do anything about himself. Our society stinks because of the 'not take responsibility for your actions' mentality. He has admitted knowing he needs help but doesn't WANT to do anything about it."
"To anyone feeling emotional and vulnerable and self-reflective… call a close friend. Visit a loved one you haven't seen in years. Write heart-felt letters to anyone who means anything to you… but don't give in and show remorse or regret over a Narcissist. You'll only leave the encounter still hurting and they'll have their NS-fix for the week."
"One of the signs of the abuse inflicted on you is having fleeting murderous violent horrible thoughts. You are not losing your mind, it is just your natural self-preservation instinct because you are feeling so intensely trapped. You are mentally 'fighting back'. You know deep down inside you are incapable of really doing anything. But the thoughts can be frightening, especially if you have never had them before. A lot of it has to do with the fact that you are so angry that this person has you in such a position."
"I was with my husband for ten years and was completely and utterly devoted to him. Brainwashed, totally. He was my guide, my life and he almost destroyed me. Now when I think of him I feel absolutely nothing, zero. No hate, no pity, not an ounce of love - just nothing. And it's wonderful."
"I felt that emptiness also when I confronted him with the truth of him being personality disordered. Then all you think is… how could I have been so fooled?? Self-reflection is not an easy thing to do. You then have to face all aspects of yourself, shadow and light. Being able to do this is what makes us different."
"I am a firm believer that most women who accept a bad relationship had no voice as a child and suffered emotional and sometimes physical abuse. I know I did."
"Both of my sons eventually saw their N-dad for what he truly is. I didn't have to tell them or talk to them about their Dad. They figured it out. Now we (my sons and I) are very close and have wonderful times when we are together. N-Dad's name isn't even mentioned between us anymore."
"I guess I'm just feeling sorry for myself. It's been over a year since this N abandonment- nightmare began and I can't believe I still feel so bad."
"When the 'devaluation' phase began I was totally confused having been in denial for so long about the one-dimensional aspect of our relationship."
"Denial is the way we handle what we cannot handle."
"Is it like your emotions are going up and down like a roller coaster? One minute you miss him so bad you can hardly stand it, the next moment you are furious at him for never loving you the way you loved him."
"In retrospect I see how boring, predictable and exasperating living with the N was. Moody, moody, moody. It was like having an infant. My nine-year-old son was better able to control himself!"
"I am in the process of moving on with my life… enrolled in college and also looking forward to a divorce and the day I will be REALLY free. I didn't come to these decisions easily… I suffered for over 35 years of marriage. The greatest revelation to me has been that my marriage has been a 'figment of MY imagination'. Please don't think that he will ever change. They can't. What they are is their survival mechanism. If it wasn't for the information that I learned here I would probably be looking for a pine box! As I have taken my 'baby steps' in recovery, I find that I have regained my self-esteem. I have realized that I did everything I could to make the marriage work and when it failed, I was not to blame. I am a worthwhile person and so are you. You have suffered enough. PLEASE move on with your life! There is just so much more than life with a self-centred, ego-maniac who cares nothing for anyone except how they can serve them. Stay here and get strong. The fine people who post here have been through it all."
"You will never unlearn what you now know about narcissism. If you go back to the N, you will look at him - and you will know, and this knowledge will come between you."
"I just CAN'T believe that our relationship amounted to nothing to him. I just can't believe it! I can't even begin to understand the mind of someone like him. How could he do this?"
"I'd love to be able to pick up the phone and call him and scream and yell and cry for all of the heartache I went through (and still go through) for him… But I, like you, know that it wouldn't do any good. It's truly heartbreaking to know that someone you loved more than life itself has no way of understanding what it feels like."
"We are de-programming ourselves (at least I hope we are!) and it can only get better. When WE look in the mirror we know who is looking back at us. What does the N see when he looks for the millionth time in his mirror. Best not to dwell too much on what he sees."
"I want love and I daresay the entire human race does too. But love comes to you, and it will, maybe in the form you least expect. But it cannot be chased after and brought down with a left and a right like a bird. You cannot capture love, by its very nature. It should be a healthy interaction between two people (and you know this), not a co-dependency. So, yes, there are the fireworks, and the coloured lights, and the exhilaration, and the dangerous delight of the first days with the N. We have all experienced that, and look where it got us. Love, for me at any rate, is the person who is always there for you, and you for them, even when you are tired, down, fatigued from work, maybe not looking your best, in bed with 'flu and looking a freak. Love is, whether we like it or not, the good, old-fashioned daily slog and all it entails. Anything else is movie stuff, and a recipe for disaster."
"I hate that word co-dependent. Seems like every nice, decent person I even knew is somehow called a co-dependent."
"Take lots of care. Look in other directions. Take your mind to a quiet place. Do something you never did before."
"Don't let your mind be invaded, even by your own negative thoughts/memories, or even by what you might consider memories of the 'good' times. 'Good times' do not exist in N-land."
"To him, trust was just about sex and fidelity and had nothing to do with emotional intimacy. If you push for intimacy with an N, there is no choice for them other than to flee or devalue. There is no love there… they don't know what it means. That's why, I liken it to talking to an alien… they just don't get it."
"Staying with an N, or making contact with an ex-N, is like putting your hands directly on a hot stovetop to warm them. It will "work" for five seconds before it scalds you."
"It's amazing the little details I keep remembering, and how angry they make me… and ultimately how stupid I feel for putting up with it."
"That feeling of not getting it all out with her will fade, and you'll be glad you didn't get it all out with her, because she'd just use the information to somehow abuse you even more either now or in the future."
"Our biggest wish is that someone would be able to find a cure for NPD because it just breaks our hearts to see our partners/friends/husbands/wives with NPD suffer and inflict suffering on the people who love them most. We have no choice but to leave for our own self preservation."
"I have separated myself from him in every way, but he persists in calling, writing, driving by, e-mailing, sending friends to communicate, etc. I want it to stop sooooo… badly but the nightmare continues."
"Of course, he didn't have a clue what I meant. Explaining the notion (that the issues I had with him were all about a lack of emotional intimacy) was just an opportunity to engage in the blame (me) game, word-salad game, pathologize (me) game, spin reality game and lure and slam game, rationalize it all away game, etc… in other words, I had my first brush with the devaluation cycle. Very painful and bewildering."
"Once you are crystal clear in your perception of the Ns true personality, you lose respect for them. Then you can put up with a lot, because you no longer feel the need to take what they say with any seriousness."
"Funny: Sex was not a problem, except if she didn't get enough… and trust me it was never enough."
"You're not crazy. No way. Your anger is your weapon right now. You need to be angry. You have a right to be angry."
"Happiness is the best revenge, because that's something we're capable of but they're not. Get angry, feel the hurt, but please don't act out on revenge. Then you'd just have to feel your own shame for living outside of your own values."
"After sinking into a pit of despair, going into shock one night and shaking so bad I could not stop that shaking, I literally could not stop it. It frightened me. Then, I became angry, I get my strength from anger. The angrier I get, the stronger I get. Here I was driven into mind- numbing terror, pain, confusion. The anger became an almost welcome relief from the pain. How could he treat me that way? I had done nothing but work for our marriage. I was dumped like a bag of trash."
"Maybe it's just good, old-fashioned aversion to pain. None of us like to be hurt, and when we perceive things or situations as hurtful, we tend to avoid them. I used to avoid things too, as a reaction to all the pain I had suffered as a child. Some things should be avoided, and others should be worked through, and the trick for me has been partly learning how to tell the difference."
"What helped me was learning that I don't have to be all things to all people, and learning that I can be myself, and that is good enough for most people."
"I needed real human contact so badly after my experience with my ex-N. I enjoyed such simple things in life as to sit and have a give-and-take conversation, mutual respect, a smile, a touch. All of this without what the narcissist overlays upon social interaction. I was awed by how nice people are, how understanding, and at the same time, many, truly don't understand, yet they were human, and MAN WAS IT GOOD TO SPEND SOME TIME WITH A HUMAN!!!"
"You know that old saying that the opposite of love isn't hate, it is indifference. And, sweet woman, you are much bigger and better than he is. Don't stoop down to his level."
"Once you've had some time with zero contact with him you will see how your thinking clears and changes. Read everything here as it really helps and please keep sharing here. You'll find lots of support and comfort. When you are tempted to call him sit down here and read or write until it passes. Vent, vent, vent!"
"Why don't we go? For any combination of reasons. Take a look at the 'you' before or at the time you started going out with the N – and the 'you' later on. Never was anyone less equipped to get out by that stage - your self worth is in the gutter, you feel a failure, a deep sense of being a nothing - the things the N said to you, the insidious drip-feed of negatives, their behaviour that says so much about how little they respect or care for you. Then of course we really do have to face some of the nastiest - the what ifs, the depression, the self hatred (how COULD I have put up with this, how DARE he did this to me without a blink of the eye - what must he have thought of me knowing I allowed him to do these things), the loneliness, sense of failure."
"My ex-N did mood swings on me too. That is, if we were going someplace, he would be fine until in the car. Suddenly, he would be down and out. When I became familiar about N disorder, I would straight up say: 'Hey you think I am going to follow in to YOUR mood you are WRONG! I'm staying happy so there you go big fellow!' Meaning: grow-up. Yea, they do that stuff. It is the other person who has the choice to NOT fall prey to the mood especially if it is a negative mood. Remember, they say the opposite of what is happening. Saying you were playing mind games 'meant' HE WAS!"
"It was only when I finally - after about 3 months - came across Sam Vaknin's site on Suite 101, that I sat in front of the screen, with a dro