Platos Gorgias
SOCRATES: What are you saying, Polus? Why do you POLUS: Then are cookery and rhetoric the same?
ask me whether rhetoric is a fine thing or not, when I have not as yet told you what rhetoric is?
SOCRATES: No, they are only different parts of the same profession.
POLUS: Did I not hear you say that rhetoric was a sort of experience?
POLUS: Of what profession?
SOCRATES: Will you, who are so desirous to gratify oth-SOCRATES: I am afraid that the truth may seem discour-ers, afford a slight gratification to me?
teous; and I hesitate to answer, lest Gorgias should imagine that I am making fun of his own profession. For whether or POLUS: I will.
no this is that art of rhetoric which Gorgias practises I really cannot tell:from what he was just now saying, nothing ap-SOCRATES: Will you ask me, what sort of an art is cook-peared of what he thought of his art, but the rhetoric which ery?
I mean is a part of a not very creditable whole.
POLUS: What sort of an art is cookery?
GORGIAS: A part of what, Socrates? Say what you mean, and never mind me.
SOCRATES: Not an art at all, Polus.
SOCRATES: In my opinion then, Gorgias, the whole of POLUS: What then?
which rhetoric is a part is not an art at all, but the habit of a bold and ready wit, which knows how to manage mankind: SOCRATES: I should say an experience.
this habit I sum up under the word flattery; and it appears to me to have many other parts, one of which is cookery, POLUS: In what? I wish that you would explain to me.
which may seem to be an art, but, as I maintain, is only an experience or routine and not an art:another part is rheto-SOCRATES: An experience in producing a sort of delight ric, and the art of attiring and sophistry are two others: thus and gratification, Polus.
there are four branches, and four different things answer-77
Platos Gorgias
ing to them. And Polus may ask, if he likes, for he has not yet explained myself, and our friend Polus, colt by name as yet been informed, what part of flattery is rhetoric: he and colt by nature, is apt to run away. (This is an untranslat-did not see that I had not yet answered him when he proable play on the name Polus, which means a colt.) ceeded to ask a further question: Whether I do not think rhetoric a fine thing? But I shall not tell him whether rheto-GORGIAS: Never mind him, but explain to me what you ric is a fine thing or not, until I have first answered, What mean by saying that rhetoric is the counterfeit of a part of is rhetoric? For that would not be right, Polus; but I shall politics.
be happy to answer, if you will ask me, What part of flattery is rhetoric?
SOCRATES: I will try, then, to explain my notion of rhetoric, and if I am mistaken, my friend Polus shall refute me.
POLUS: I will ask and do you answer? What part of flat-We may assume the existence of bodies and of souls?
tery is rhetoric?
GORGIAS: Of course.
SOCRATES: Will you understand my answer? Rhetoric, according to my view, is the ghost or counterfeit of a part of SOCRATES: You would further admit that there is a good politics.
condition of either of them?
POLUS: And noble or ignoble?
GORGIAS: Yes.
SOCRATES: Ignoble, I should say, if I am compelled to SOCRATES: Which condition may not be really good, answer, for I call what is bad ignoble: though I doubt whether but good only in appearance? I mean to say, that there are you understand what I was saying before.
many persons who appear to be in good health, and whom only a physician or trainer will discern at first sight not to be GORGIAS: Indeed, Socrates, I cannot say that I underin good health.
stand myself.
GORGIAS: True.
SOCRATES: I do not wonder, Gorgias; for I have not as 78
Platos Gorgias
SOCRATES: And this applies not only to the body, but is the best for the body; and if the physician and the cook also to the soul: in either there may be that which gives the had to enter into a competition in which children were the appearance of health and not the reality?
judges, or men who had no more sense than children, as to which of them best understands the goodness or badness GORGIAS: Yes, certainly.
of food, the physician would be starved to death. A flattery I deem this to be and of an ignoble sort, Polus, for to you I SOCRATES: And now I will endeavour to explain to you am now addressing myself, because it aims at pleasure with-more clearly what I mean: The soul and body being two, out any thought of the best. An art I do not call it, but only have two arts corresponding to them: there is the art of an experience, because it is unable to explain or to give a politics attending on the soul; and another art attending on reason of the nature of its own applications. And I do not the body, of which I know no single name, but which may call any irrational thing an art; but if you dispute my words, be described as having two divisions, one of them gymnas-I am prepared to argue in defence of them.
tic, and the other medicine. And in politics there is a legis-Cookery, then, I maintain to be a flattery which takes the lative part, which answers to gymnastic, as justice does to form of medicine; and tiring, in like manner, is a flattery medicine; and the two parts run into one another, justice which takes the form of gymnastic, and is knavish, false, having to do with the same subject as legislation, and medi-ignoble, illiberal, working deceitfully by the help of lines, cine with the same subject as gymnastic, but with a differ-and colours, and enamels, and garments, and making men ence. Now, seeing that there are these four arts, two attend-affect a spurious beauty to the neglect of the true beauty ing on the body and two on the soul for their highest good; which is given by gymnastic.
flattery knowing, or rather guessing their natures, has disI would rather not be tedious, and therefore I will only tributed herself into four shams or simulations of them; say, after the manner of the geometricians (for I think that she puts on the likeness of some one or other of them, and by this time you will be able to follow) pretends to be that which she simulates, and having no regard for mens highest interests, is ever making pleasure as tiring : gymnastic :: cookery : medicine; the bait of the unwary, and deceiving them into the belief that she is of the highest value to them. Cookery simulates or rather,
the disguise of medicine, and pretends to know what food 79
Platos Gorgias
as tiring : gymnastic :: sophistry : legislation; you will speak at equal length; but if I am able to understand you, let me have the benefit of your brevity, as is only and
fair: And now you may do what you please with my answer.
as cookery : medicine :: rhetoric : justice.
POLUS: What do you mean? do you think that rhetoric is flattery?
And this, I say, is the natural difference between the rhetorician and the sophist, but by reason of their near connec-SOCRATES: Nay, I said a part of flattery; if at your age, tion, they are apt to be jumbled up together; neither do Polus, you cannot remember, what will you do by-and-by, they know what to make of themselves, nor do other men when you get older?
know what to make of them. For if the body presided over itself, and were not under the guidance of the soul, and the POLUS: And are the good rhetoricians meanly regarded soul did not discern and discriminate between cookery and in states, under the idea that they are flatterers?
medicine, but the body was made the judge of them, and the rule of judgment was the bodily delight which was given SOCRATES: Is that a question or the beginning of a by them, then the word of Anaxagoras, that word with which speech?
you, friend Polus, are so well acquainted, would prevail far and wide: Chaos would come again, and cookery, health, POLUS: I am asking a question.
and medicine would mingle in an indiscriminate mass. And now I have told you my notion of rhetoric, which is, in SOCRATES: Then my answer is, that they are not regarded relation to the soul, what cookery is to the body. I may at all.
have been inconsistent in making a long speech, when I would not allow you to discourse at length. But I think that POLUS: How not regarded? Have they not very great power I may be excused, because you did not understand me, in states?
and could make no use of my answer when I spoke shortly, and therefore I had to enter into an explanation. And if I SOCRATES: Not if you mean to say that power is a good show an equal inability to make use of yours, I hope that to the possessor.